Games you hate, yet everyone else cherishes.

Yup, the ensemble cast of Nintendo (and other) characters makes the series what it is. The mechanics are superb, but it's the characters that give it its own identity. If it was a game full of original characters unique to only Smash Bros. I don't think it would be anywhere near as successful.

@Sailerius Have we been playing the same game? Literally the last thing I think of in regards to Smash is a lack of soul. And it's by no means slow, I don't really know where you're getting that from. It's one of the more fast paced fighters out there. The only fighters I can think of that are faster are Guilty Gear, Blazblue and Marvel vs Capcom. Don't really see the issue of it being a cash cow either. Smash makes a ton of money. Always has, probably always will.

Never played Dokapon. I kind of agree with the soulless cash cow statement, but only for the latest iterations. Maybe my nostalgia is tainting the true experience with the old ones, but the original for sure felt like a well built game.

I actually played Borderlands 1 and finished it with friends. I tried doing the same with 2, but to me it just wasn't as enjoyable as 1, and1 was already just OK.


I do agree the single player lacks. The dlc was fun though.

Man, I played BL1 and 2 both completely singleplayer and they are both top tier as far ps3/360 gen games to me. To each their own though.

I can't say I was a huge fan of the original Borderlands. Not until the later areas anyway where things diverted a little. I thought B2 was an improvement in every possible regard though. The gameplay, the writing, the story, the level design. Everything just felt more genuine and polished, rather than just one barren wasteland after another. One thing I really hated in B2 though were the timed missions. In solo play they were horrible. Oh, and the loot system is still far from perfect in multiplayer.

I haven't tried The Pre-Sequel yet but in my books, more Borderlands is only a good thing :)

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I respect that to a point. Calling Super Smash Brothers a soulless series however is just plain wrong though. Have you heard the soundtracks (90% of which are arranged from other games and sound amazing) and seen the stages for the game? The characters have moves from there own games as well.


I see nothing but love put into the game. Not everyone will agree and that's fine.

Borderlands have a hell of great characters.

That and the whole atmosphere, with a lot of references like Saints Row does,

makes it a great game.

Not to mention that it is far from easy.... D:<   

The music is great.

This. One look at that list of composers should be enough to convince anyone how much heart and soul goes into Smash Bros. Not to mention Smash gave previously enigmatic characters whole new personalities. Falcon is now known for his punch more than the fact he's a racer/bounty hunter. And on the whole, the characters all feel faithful to their source material.

And again, I compare the game to Tekken. Button mashing certainly is viable in very casual play, but if you want to actually get good at the game, that kind of playstyle gets you absolutely nowhere.

@Sailerius Wow, you're so cynical it's kind of hilarious. I guess it's this lack of creative spark that Nintendo has that pushes them to create endlessly polished games that constantly garner critical acclaim and ensure they remain on customer's shelves for years. And it's not like Smash Bros. is an annual thing. THAT would be pushing it. However, that's not the case. We get a new entry in the series every 5-6 years, when there's enough new Nintendo content to make a new entry viable.

I have to agree though that it would be nice to see Nintendo try something new. When was the last time they made a game that wasn't a rehash of an old property?


I mean, Animal Crossing is probably the newest of their properties, and it started on the Gamecube 13 years ago.

It's not just that they never do anything new, but that they don't really innovate as much as they used to.

Not to mention that Nintendo wants to keep that family friendly marketing.

I don't know why, eventually they got their reasons.

But adult gamers are toasted that way.

Not to mention that their old loyal customers (gamers) are probably now the parents.

I mean, gamers are more open minded than the non gamer generations. Right?

I might be wrong, I don't know. At least they don't demonize and accuse this hobby and way of play and communication as much as others.

Still Nintendo has no new ideas and this policy limits the company even more.

Whatever.

Never played Smash bros, I have no opinion on that game since I don't have any experience.

But I can tell that as a company, Nintendo doesn't seem to care about bringing something new.

There are real fans of their games, they profit out of it, everyone is happy.  :p

 



"Awesome!!! I can't wait to play this character that I've already played in a game that was exactly identical to this before!"


This is also their "branding" policy. I can understand that for Mario and Luigi and Kupa.

But yeah, they keep treating almost all characters as recognizable brands...

another limit they put themselves into!

You are right @Sailerius! 

Well there's Splatoon on the Wii U, as well as Project STEAM on 3DS, and a number of crossover projects Nintendo have been working on like SMT x Fire Emblem, Hyrule Warriors etc. They're creating new IPs that are certainly beyond their comfort zone (Splatoon being a competitive shooter and Project STEAM an RTS, from my understanding). I think this shows Nintendo are pretty capable of stepping away from familiar territory.

Also, I think the problem with the "they just make the same game all the time" argument is that people think that on the whole, we're bored of these games, when that couldn't be further from the truth. These franchises have been going for so long because they don't need changing. Nintendo have a knack for nailing a gameplay concept very early on, and for that franchise's continuation, it just works. And if it isn't broken, Nintendo sure won't be in a hurry to fix it. They don't prey on nostalgia. The element of nostalgia certainly is there, but it's not what makes their games special.

But plenty of other franchises have been established for ages (Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy, etc) and they constantly innovate on and improve the gameplay even though they didn't need to because it was solid before.

"If it isn't broken, don't fix it."

Yeah, but people must keep in mind that they must keep themselves fresh, new and young.

Water flows, it is always fresh and new.

Put water in a stand still state and you got a swamp.

A swamp is not broken, but it is a swamp. not water anymore.

Final Fantasy is a pretty poor example of innovation, imo. That's a series that's kicking and screaming from beyond the grave. Though XIV: ARR is pretty damn amazing, the XIII trilogy was a disaster and XV looks wholly uninspired.

And by "if it isn't broken, don't fix it," I don't mean it as an excuse or a defense mechanism. I love the hell out of Nintendo, and yeah sure, even I'll admit some of their core franchises could use a bit of spark. Zelda and Fire Emblem in particular need a serious kick up the arse. But I'm not gonna turn around and say that their constantly immaculate level of polish, the insane attention to detail, the superb level design, their stunning co-development work with other studios and their relation to their core audience isn't special. "Soulless husk" is a term I'd reserve for the likes of Activision or Ubisoft. The latter of which is a company that makes the same game regardless of what franchise it is (which, incidentally, is why I'm scared out of my mind for Beyond Good & Evil 2).

In what way is Final Fantasy not a good example of innovation? Every modern installment turns the gameplay on its head in a novel way.

Fair enough. I wasn't specifically talking about how well it sold or how it's scored on Metacritic. Just that the trilogy completely flies in the face of what used to make FF so special. The characters are devoid of charm, their quest has a complete lack of substance or meaning, and the battle system is boiled down to inputting the same action over and over again and very occasionally switching "paradigms" to fulfill certain roles in battle. Is that considered innovation? Streamlining the game and removing everything that made the series so great previously? Is that really novel?

And it is the expectation, yes. But that expectation came from the fact that Nintendo have always had that dedication. It's not like they're going to drop all of that and cut corners to save time, because that's just not in their nature. I'm just saying their level of polish and detail is astoundingly rare in the industry today that's mired by cut content, overpriced DLC and the constant need for bugfixes and patches.

The characters are awesome.

Ah I see how it is. I've contradicted your opinion, so I'm obviously wrong, and you're trying to kill it before I even have a chance to debate further? Classic move. I have played the game and I stand by everything I said about XIII. In my opinion, the cast of characters just do nothing for me. Lightning may as well be a statue for all the personality she has (yeah, I know she's designed that way and we're supposed to think she's the stoic badass type, but again, to me, she's boring as hell). The combat is unarguably less deep than previous entries (hell, even Crystal Chronicles had more depth) regardless of whether you enjoyed it or not. Hey, if you liked the game, that's awesome. I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. But like you accused me of spitting vitriol, I'll fire back and say your defense of the game was pretty damn lacking, too.