Plot and Character Feedback

One suggestion I'll give you right from the get-go, and it helped me as I made my game. Figure out which class is your average class (or base class), and design around that. It looks like your Cavalier is your base class from what I read, so what I'd suggest is to start out with no class choice until some of the game is made. Why? Because this way you design around your base class and can balance for that, then later, go back and add the choice to pick your class if you still desire it after a while of designing (and trust me, it is harder to balance with more choices than with 1 choice).

Doing a complete rewrite of my story will mean i have to remake the game all together. I'm sorry but that isnt happening. Aside from the cliche, i really enjoy the story as it is. And all the work I have put into it so far is something that i feel will be destroyed if the story is rewriten.

Ah i see. Thank you for the imput. I went ahead and made the class choice, but i see what you mean, and may remove it. I Typically play as a mage and honestly, this game isn't suppost to be easy. IVe played through the first boss to set the diffuculty and you can...not easyly, but if not careful, get severly hurt through random battles. I did this due to the fact that i find many RPGs have very simple random encounters. Maybe the exception to that is FInal Fantasy 10 and 13. BUt i shall take your advice

If you play as a mage, then maybe fix it to a mage first. Since that is what you like to play as, you will have more experience and input into that and can balance that best. Just my thought.

But, the best overall advice? Make a game you find fun, and go from there.

I've got two things I need advice on.

First off, when you are playing a silent protagonist that you make decisions for, do you prefer a complete blank slate with zero implications of personality, or do you mind if there's hints of personality in the narrative/comments/choices?

Second... uh, what's the general consensus on swearing in games in this community? I imagine a few lower-tier swears every now and then wouldn't be too bad, but one of my characters has a penchant for being outrageously vulgar and cursing up blue streaks. It's kind of a large part of her schtick and personality, but if it seems like it would be a massive turnoff, I'll probably end up censoring her and expressing her anger and vulgarity in another way (...which, I realize, I probably should have done in the first place, but I still think this is a question worth answering). For the record, her potty mouth is by no means intended to make the game "edgy."

If your MC is the silent type, I think it's best to have him/her blank as well.

Unless you give a very strong personality, the fact that the MC is silent is to allow immersion for the player and shape their character like they want.

As for swearing, I don't believe in it. It is completely possible to have a strong willed and/or vulgar character without using F words.

It's more of the actions than the words.

For your 2nd Q: I don't mind swearing personally but depending on your games setting, it could be detrimental in numerous ways. I prefer when the swear words fit the story. For instance: instead of a character saying f*****g, they could say bloody. Be creative and use your games lore to create swearing words. You can still have a character get their point across while maintaining some semblance of verbal integrity.

As for your 1st Q: if the protagonist is going to be the 'strong silent type,' I'd say no emotion or personality should exist. Let that come from the supporting actors in the game. For example, Breath of Fire 2 sticks out to me as a game that did the silent protagonist very well because of how great the other characters dialogue was written. You were able to pick up the emotions throughout important scenes very well.

Hey there! If you can execute the dialogue in a believable way, then the sky's really the limit on what kind of characters you can make. Of course, if everyone else is talking a certain way, and then this one character sticks out like a sore thumb in a bad way, then it would probably turn off a lot of people. If she is just vulgar in general, then I can't really offer up much help, but if it spurs from an anger issue, then a potentially hilarious alternative would be to have her uncontrollably punch things when she gets angry. Could add a lot of flavour to dialogue and cutscenes with her in it.

Noted, everyone. Actually, if I may provide a counterpoint on the blank slate protagonist/personality issue: I think two good example of player characters that are supposed to be blank but have some personality elements are the protagonists from Persona 3 and 4. Their actions are guided by the player, but their dialogue choices aren't generic and neutral in most cases. There are even some narrative quirks that indicate a possible personality (I remember someone mentioning the P3 protag referring to a TV show jingle as "annoying" while the P4 protag refers to the same jingle as "cheery"). Perhaps something like that can be good if done well?

Now, for another issue:

How do you suggest "balancing" alternate routes of a game so that it doesn't feel like the story is pushing you towards one way or the other or indicating that a certain path is "true" or "right?" In my game, I have plans for two factions that are kind of extreme (pro-kill, anti-kill), plus a likely third faction that's a bit more balanced. There seem to be an equal number of people in each faction (with the exception of the balanced faction, which is short one person relative to the others till some floaters join), so that may not be a determining factor. The balanced faction may seem like a "right" path to most, so how would I make the extreme factions look more attractive? If it helps, while joining each faction results in its own separate arc, you can take actions contrary to your "attitude" at the cost of relationship points with your teammates (and maybe, in at least one case, getting kicked off the team and forced onto another arc).

First, alternate routes are a lot of work, especially if they take such a major role in the game. So, I hope you thought that through. Just think about what each faction can offer. In games I often choose a balanced route to experience everything that the game has to offer. Are your three factions completely different? Can you switch between them or are you at one point in the game presented with the choice to choose one? You might want to give the balanced faction a drawback, too. Another way to make a faction interesting is, to give them compelling characters. Some people the player wishes to team up with to see more of them. Another one, is to really think about the goals of the factions. Kill/Anti-Kill sounds very... meh, if I can be honest. Give them real goals tied into the world. For instance, one faction wishes to dethrone a tyrant king, which is (for them) a noble cause, because the king is really cruel and a lot of the people suffer under them. But the faction is ruthless in pursuing their goal and sacrifice people for the 'greater good' to reach their goal. Something like that. Don't paint the "extreme" factions in black and white, make them both in a way, that the player can understand why they have these goals and why they act in such extreme ways.

I thought I'd post the backstory of my game, and see what people think. the parts in italics are thoughts she has just before the game starts. So yea, I'm switching back between past and present in this. Oh, and the story of my game is MUCH more complex then this makes it sound

The main charecter, Esperanza, had a good life. She had a wonderful job in her small backwater town; a tight-nit, loving family; an irritating, argumentitive, independent, yet gentle, loving boyfriend. A best-friend who was as tight as a sister. She spent long lazy summer days staring up at the sky through the canopy of green in the forest. Although she had an adventrous spirit, and drank in stories of other places like she was about to die of dhydration. she loved her simple life

"Why did I ever go on that journey to begin with?" Esperanza thinks out loud as she stare's out over the sea. knee-deep in it.

faded, worn clothes clung to her back. her ponytail frayed at the end. lose hairs flying every which way in the wind. the dried piece of crabgrass that poorly held it up, about to come untied with every movment. 

she studies the water, a stick with a sharpened stone attached clasped firmly, yet gently in her fingers.

"Was this preventable? or inevetable?"

she throws her makshift spear, missing the fish. Her stomach grumbles

one day, while walking through the forest. She see's an old woman being cornered by a strange beast.

"H-h-help me!" the woman studders. Esperanza picks up a fallen branch and chases the animal away.

"Thank you. I was on my way to Shoals when that-that- that thing attacked me."

"I live in shoals" Esperanza offered, "what's your name?"

"Oh, you can call me Lii."

Lii smiled, her eyes meeting Esperanza's, piercing into her very soul. A smile slowly creeped across her lips.

Lii had stayed at the Inn, for sevral months.

After being asked why she was there for the third time, she said she was merley passing through. On a journey to find something she read in an old journal. When Esperanza had asked about it, Lii handed her the journal, admitting she was probably too old for the job.

Curiosity overcame her, and she said she would have a look.

Over the next few weeks, Esperanza read the journal. Enthralled by the adventure it contained. A man, intent on finding there countries secrets and broken shards of a past not recorded explores every nook and cranny, searching for a lost ruins, that disappeared, many hunderd's of years ago. Wanting to retrieve and make widespread, the lost information and history that lies within.

even after finishing the journal, the possibilities captured Esperanza's imagination. The clues, dead-ends, might-not-be-dead-ends, and enigma's dancing with her soul. Yet she couldn't run after them, she had family responsibilities, and sevral people were deepending on her. she needed a push

Esperanza pulled her spear out of the water. the stone blade had come off, lost to the waves. Frustrated, she throws it out into the sea, and starts searching the water for clams. She had always hated clams, but her basic instincts overrode her persanol preffrences. Slapping into the water, She wondered if her best friend was having better luck. A twinge of regret. She should have refused assistance. She should have journeyed alone. How could she know what her adventure would twist into? That the closer she got to the awnsers she seeked, the more her journey would twist into strange directions she had never anticipated.

After sevral minuets of shallow diving, and coming up for air, she returns to the small Island. This had been her home for three long years. Five years away from the small town she grew up in. She was homesick, and tired of adventure. It was time to go home, anyway possible

the reports began to come in. Reports far and wide across the country. They were small everyday problems. sometimes a sickness would break out. They had always come on the lips of travlers. Yet slowly, Esperanza realized, that many of the problems might possibly be solved with the knowlage and wisdom of there ancestors. She had to seek them out...

Oddball, there is a plot feedback thread here :)

well, since i didn't know that, and already created the topic...

I thought this was where I post this

Well now you know, simply copy and past all that into the feedback page. :p

Surely someone will give you feed back there!

no one has yet, although it's only been a couple of days

@Sami-Fire64

You can do a lot of interesting things to express a character being really vulgar without swearing.  For example:

- Very blunt comments, not caring who hears what ("I don't care what the King said.  This is a waste of our time.  News flash!  Morons CAN wear crowns!").  This can also set up some plot devices.

- Interrupting or otherwise ignoring what other characters say, even if it's to her, if she doesn't agree with or like it.

- Make up creative swear phrases.  After all, if the game is not set strictly in the present time, or even if it is, and it's an isolated subculture or area of the world, they certainly would NOT use the swears we use currently.   You can show the vulgarity by people's remarks when she says them:

("Fudruckers!")

I had one set of dialogue where I used a single swear for maximum comedy:

- A vampire kid says "What do you think of (person the PC HATES)?"

- Mike: "He's a f---"

Rik:  "MIKE!"

- Mike continues "un guy."

The vampire kid (who is several hundred years old) says "It's OK, a lot of people think he's a f***er.  Nice try Rik.   Don't forget we are older than we look."

@Sami-Fire64

On Swearing

Personally, I am in the Steven King camp: swearing is OK, if that is the story you want to tell. Yes, using the 4-lettered word is vulgar, but in the real world, that is really how some people talk. Yes, they may be ignorant or rude or hateful, but how they speak reflects that. I mean, you COULD use pleasant substitutes, but it's just not the same. A character saying "F*** you!" conveys a very different feeling from one who says "Oh! I am so darn it angry at you!" Very different emotional impact.

Oh, but if you put in curse words you do have to put like a rated R or something somewhere in your game to warn off those who don't want to see this kind of thing. Also, be prepared to take some heat no matter what. It is after all controversial.

On Silent Hero

Well, there was Chrono from Chrono Trigger... and he did fine with emos. :p  Unless a person's a robot or a lobotomized nutcase, that person has emotions and personality. He just may not be good at expressing it. You as the author may have to use his actions to show his personality. What he does speaks far louder than what he says.

On Balance and not hinting "right path"

I think it would actually be more interesting if you just kept it to the two anti-kill and kill camps. This creates the most tension. I think you are having trouble because you yourself is biased toward the "balanced" camp. A trick I heard from someone is to first pick someone from one camp and make him THE main character and go through the game from his POV. He thinks he's right. You also have to convince yourself he's really the "good guy." Now, do the exact same thing with the other camp. You may start to see things from a different light. 

Two teams could both be "right". For example, say the Kill-camp thinks a certain magical demoness should be killed because she will destroy the world and she also killed hero A's family (by accident, but still). While the anti-kill camp thinks she has reformed (with occasional bouts of madness) and hero B has also fallen in love with her. They are both "right" in their own POV, but there can be only one victor. And there lies the tragedy, and the story.

Little late to the party here, but in my game, I made up a couple swear words, that would not be vulgar in our society, but based on the others reactions you can tell they are the swear word. I got this idea from the series Sten (a book) which decided to use the word clot as a swear word in the book. So, think of a word that could be modified and used as a swear word, or, go to a random word generator, find one or two you like and make it your worlds swear word.

The way I'm handing this is I'm writing the game for just one route first, and seeing how that works out. Once the first route is done, if possible I add in the options to proceed via another route. Also, this has the advantage that you complete the game and not get bogged down on creating alternate routes.

To give you an idea, in my game there is a point where the group needs to break into a place and steal something. When I first wrote it, there was only the violent way to proceed. However, once that was implemented, I added in a way to sneak in and get out without a fight. To balance that I also awarded EXP for completing the quest without killing anyone, basing my reward on how much EXP the average player would earn in the violent way + a bonus for being creative.