Personally, I enjoyed KH1 MUCH more than KH2. The platforming was downplayed in KH2 and your party members were made next to useless (some people don't mind this but it annoyed me quite a bit). I was also really against the idea of merging with your party members to create a new form. The idea was unappealing for me right from the get-go, and even in practice I didn't enjoy it. One of my favourite memories of KH1 is watching Goofy take on enemies all by himself as he uses Tornado and just spins away at enemies. I couldn't do that in KH2 because my allies did sliver damage with each of their strikes. Then I'd hit the enemy once and did like 20x the damage that Goofy did in one of his attacks.
I was just a young teenager when I first played KH, and I was much easier to impress back then, so I found myself loving KH1's storyline and getting super hyped for KH2. But quite often, when I replay a game that I remember loving as a teenager, I find myself wondering what the heck I found so good about it (mostly in terms of story: as I've gotten older, games can't get away with bad writing anymore). I guess that's what the HD 1.5 Remix will be good for - perhaps when I replay it, I'll be repulsed by the dialogue.
I'll still say that I enjoy KH's battle system more than any other RPG though. I love that you can jump, dodge roll, guard, and even deflect by attacking into an attack to provide multiple means to get around and approach enemies. I love the boss designs in most cases and I feel it's a real time RPG with the best sense of counterplay. When I play any Tales game, or the post-game bosses of Star Ocean 3, there's very little counterplay with the bosses. Tales bosses don't really have attack patterns, they situationally use their moves based on player positioning. And their attacks are quite often too quick and wide-reaching for you to do anything but guard (Tales of Graces I felt was the best in this regard because of it's emphasis on side-stepping). In more recent entries, bosses using their Mystic Artes are just stupid. They go in overlimit, and your only choice is to run away from him until it's over because if you let him get an attack off, he gets his free cutscene attack that automatically nukes your entire party. Star Ocean 3's super bosses had ultimate attacks that covered the entire battlefield....and they were so strong they would often one-shot your entire team. What the heck? The only counterplay was to stock up on those EM Stun Bombs and use them EVERY time the boss was about to use the attack. Run out of stun bombs? You're screwed!
Games you hate, yet everyone else cherishes.
● ARCHIVED · READ-ONLY
-
-
Gotta disagree. I think Borderlands 2 was better in every way. It was bigger, the writing was smarter and funnier, and it made Pandora feel more alive. The diversity of the areas was awesome, and I loved how each had its own lore, inhabitants and enemies. It definitely felt more "Borderlandsish" than the first one, whatever kind of criticism that is.Another one I didn't particularly care for was Borderlands 2. Absolutely loved the first Borderlands. Was outrageous, silly, fun and just plain crazy. And it gave some wiggle room for the player's imagination because of how little the playable characters interacted with the people around them. Did not like Borderlands 2 because of the discrepancies between them. The first one never felt like a rush to the end, saving people ect. You didn't know what was in the Vault or who was behind it until much later. You were just going through, completing quests and fighting bandit goons. And at one point, it's clarified that most of the bandits are thugs/criminals anyway, sent to Pandora to do physical labor. The problem I had with the second was that they tried so very hard to make me care for the characters that I either already had a preconceived idea about or they outright changing information. Borderlands 2 had a comment from Tannis (with an attempt at sympathy) about how the bandits were normal everyday Joe's who were abandoned and forced into gangs, while the first already explained why these poor sods were there. I know they had to reiterate this information to newcomers who didn't play the first, but it certainly wouldn't have been hard to repeat the original game's info. It just felt like a sob story with all this tragedy meant to pull at my heart strings for the previous main characters and it was pretty obvious. Like crystal clear obvious.
The first was a menagerie of silly almost non directional quests, the second took a 180, have to save the planet, with an attempt at a deep and heavy storyline. And it didn't feel very Borderlandsish. The story really let me down. I just didn't care for it much.
Also, I don't think the story was deep or heavy, it just had a reason to fight in Handsome Jack. What a gloriously evil villain. Seriously, I think he's one of the best written villains of all time. The characters were likable enough to enjoy the ride with, and the returning cast ensured it very much felt like a Borderlands game.
I think it was also more creative than the first game. There were tons of quests that were entertaining because of how they were written and how they played out, even if a lot of them were essentially the same thing. The superb writing helped to diversify the quests and I laughed out loud several times. -
If borderlands 2 was an attempt at a "deep and heavy storyline" than I am trying at least 1000x to hard at doing the same. Maybe the story was a bit more cohesive than the first one, but it didn't try to be anything it wasn't, if you think anything in borderlands 2 was meant to 'pull at your heartstrings' you've clearly missed the mark. It's not just that it doesn't do so, it doesn't even try to do so. Whatever sympathies or danger exist in the story are the bare minimum required to keep me interested in the story at all, and often laced with satire to boot. It's just fun to play, and that's all it ever tried to be. I really didn't care for the story in either borderlands (it's kind of a surprise to find someone who enjoys borderlands but feels the story holds any weight honestly.) I always saw the story as just the bare minimum to get you to point A to point B in order to introduce awesome psychopaths like Tina who want you to do random bat- crazy stuff for them that you do just because it's funny and fun.
(clarification: story-driven games are my favorite type of games, it's just not why I enjoy borderlands.) -
Exactly. Borderlands can be enjoyed in multiple ways. But I do think the story in the second game was actually pretty good. It was well written enough that I actually cared about the characters. It didn't tug at my heartstrings or anything (because it honestly wasn't written to do so) but the plight of the heroes was strong enough to get me on board. Not to mention all the crazy situations the player character and supporting cast would get themselves in, often leading to comedic brilliance.If borderlands 2 was an attempt at a "deep and heavy storyline" than I am trying at least 1000x to hard at doing the same. Maybe the story was a bit more cohesive than the first one, but it didn't try to be anything it wasn't, if you think anything in borderlands 2 was meant to 'pull at your heartstrings' you've clearly missed the mark. It's not just that it doesn't do so, it doesn't even try to do so. Whatever sympathies or danger exist in the story are the bare minimum required to keep me interested in the story at all, and often laced with satire to boot. It's just fun to play, and that's all it ever tried to be. I really didn't care for the story in either borderlands (it's kind of a surprise to find someone who enjoys borderlands but feels the story holds any weight honestly.) I always saw the story as just the bare minimum to get you to point A to point B in order to introduce awesome psychopaths like Tina who want you to do random bat- crazy stuff for them that you do just because it's funny and fun.
(clarification: story-driven games are my favorite type of games, it's just not why I enjoy borderlands.)
The story is there to give you a reason to play, to engage you, and to make you laugh. I appreciate the humour wasn't everyone's thing, but it was right up my alley XD -
By default, the original would be more 'Borderlandsish' than the sequel, having set the name and benchmark :p
Fans of the games are on either end of the spectrum, either they undeniably liked it or some things irked them. The writing was fine, yes, humorous, yes. I agree, it was damn funny in a bunch of parts. But the reason I loved the first more so was because nothing was ever at stake. Everything was silly and lighthearted. In the second, you obviously have more important things to accomplish and it dampens the ridiculousness it established in previous quests and the previous game. Much was improved upon, like the UI, shops and a bigger world. But bigger isn't always better, especially the footnotes they attempt to use to fill in the world, which lacked consistency.
The second tried too hard in my opinion. But some people probably needed that "big bad chase" to keep into it. I'd have to disagree and that it did attempt to rise emotions from fans in plenty of parts, namely the deaths of some characters. Hence the heart-strings. I remember reddit's 'manly tears were shed' memes in the Borderlands subreddit at launch. 'Deep' might not be the correct word, but was certainly more 'deep' than the first and I went in expecting something else. But that's my problem.
But that's my opinion. I didn't like it but I don't hate it. Much rather prefer the first.
Robolution!
Edit for typos ugghh -
You raise some good points. I do appreciate that they raised the stakes, though. I loved the first game to absolute death and up until Borderlands 2 it was one of my favourite games of the last/current console generation. But I disliked its story for the same reasons that you like it (funny how that works out, haha). The original was a little too aimless; there were silly goings-on here and there for sure, but looking back, the majority of it felt like unnecessary busy work.By default, the original would be more 'Borderlandsish' than the sequel, having set the name and benchmark :p
Fans of the games are on either end of the spectrum, either they undeniably liked it or some things irked them. The writing was fine, yes, humorous, yes. I agree, it was damn funny in a bunch of parts. But the reason I loved the first more so was because nothing was ever at stake. Everything was silly and lighthearted. In the second, you obviously have more important things to accomplish and it dampens the ridiculousness it established in previous quests and the previous game. Much was improved upon, like the UI, shops and a bigger world. But bigger isn't always better, especially the footnotes they attempt to use to fill in the world, which lacked consistency.
The second tried too hard in my opinion. But some people probably needed that "big bad chase" to keep into it. I'd have to disagree and that it did attempt to rise emotions from fans in plenty of parts, namely the deaths of some characters. Hence the heart-strings. I remember reddit's 'manly tears were shed' memes in the Borderlands subreddit at launch. 'Deep' might not be the correct word, but was certainly more 'deep' than the first and I went in expecting something else. But that's my problem.
But that's my opinion. I didn't like it but I don't hate it. Much rather prefer the first.
Robolution!
Edit for typos ugghh
In the sequel, the quests were more fleshed out, the characters had a greater degree of personality, and I feel if they didn't raise the stakes and provide an actual story, people would lose interest fast as it would be more or less the same, sans the new areas and such. Indeed, the fact they chose to kill off certain characters added to this, raising the stakes even further, and providing legitimate drama and tension. Those people who felt manly tears (myself included ;_; ) I think have every right to feel that, because the story was, to a lot of people, emotionally investing.
But then again, that's not what a lot of people play Borderlands for, and that's a completely fair assessment. But I definitely think the direction they went in with Borderlands 2 evolved the series for the better. -
We do just seem to be opposites, haha. I did like the aimlessness (which is probably a better way of putting it than how I have been) while others liked the direction, and in the second, the direction was very important. It also gave them a chance to give those character assessments which people appreciated. They explained the existence of more than one Vault very well, so I have no quips with that. So most of the animosity lies mostly with me. It was a very popular game, just didn't strike my fancy. But definitely not a bad game, not enough to hate.
-
But we are opposites that are having a legitimately intelligent discussion on what we like/dislike. That's almost impossible to do on the internet without someone getting butthurt. :)We do just seem to be opposites, haha. I did like the aimlessness (which is probably a better way of putting it than how I have been) while others liked the direction, and in the second, the direction was very important. It also gave them a chance to give those character assessments which people appreciated. They explained the existence of more than one Vault very well, so I have no quips with that. So most of the animosity lies mostly with me. It was a very popular game, just didn't strike my fancy. But definitely not a bad game, not enough to hate.
-
I'm butthurt over your discussion! There's not enough yelling, cursing, or throwing of chairs! Also, I miss the trolls! Seriously people, get with the program!
-
I never got into Kingdom Hearts, and I tried once. I just don't seem to like that kind of action-RPG hybrid (I don't seem to have the reflexes I had when I was younger).Personally, I enjoyed KH1 MUCH more than KH2. The platforming was downplayed in KH2 and your party members were made next to useless (some people don't mind this but it annoyed me quite a bit). I was also really against the idea of merging with your party members to create a new form. The idea was unappealing for me right from the get-go, and even in practice I didn't enjoy it. One of my favourite memories of KH1 is watching Goofy take on enemies all by himself as he uses Tornado and just spins away at enemies. I couldn't do that in KH2 because my allies did sliver damage with each of their strikes. Then I'd hit the enemy once and did like 20x the damage that Goofy did in one of his attacks.
I was just a young teenager when I first played KH, and I was much easier to impress back then, so I found myself loving KH1's storyline and getting super hyped for KH2. But quite often, when I replay a game that I remember loving as a teenager, I find myself wondering what the heck I found so good about it (mostly in terms of story: as I've gotten older, games can't get away with bad writing anymore). I guess that's what the HD 1.5 Remix will be good for - perhaps when I replay it, I'll be repulsed by the dialogue.
I'll still say that I enjoy KH's battle system more than any other RPG though. I love that you can jump, dodge roll, guard, and even deflect by attacking into an attack to provide multiple means to get around and approach enemies. I love the boss designs in most cases and I feel it's a real time RPG with the best sense of counterplay. When I play any Tales game, or the post-game bosses of Star Ocean 3, there's very little counterplay with the bosses. Tales bosses don't really have attack patterns, they situationally use their moves based on player positioning. And their attacks are quite often too quick and wide-reaching for you to do anything but guard (Tales of Graces I felt was the best in this regard because of it's emphasis on side-stepping). In more recent entries, bosses using their Mystic Artes are just stupid. They go in overlimit, and your only choice is to run away from him until it's over because if you let him get an attack off, he gets his free cutscene attack that automatically nukes your entire party. Star Ocean 3's super bosses had ultimate attacks that covered the entire battlefield....and they were so strong they would often one-shot your entire team. What the heck? The only counterplay was to stock up on those EM Stun Bombs and use them EVERY time the boss was about to use the attack. Run out of stun bombs? You're screwed! -
I never got into Kingdom Hearts either. The storyline didn't seem to be anything special and I was breezing through the first few areas so quickly that I wondered if there was any game at all. I would have liked to spend more time in the Wonderland Zone near the beginning, but oh no, it's massively locked off until "later", whenever that is. I discovered that there's also very little reason for the "Gummi Ship" thing to exist at all. I also could not really get into the storyline.
Here's my issue with the storyline I was presented:
Three children (two boys and one girl) have lived on this island their entire lives and basically built some kind of civilization on it (how else would they have actual clothes instead of rags and such that we see in Survivor type movies or games?). But, they dream of going out to sea and discovering the world. Or... something like that. It's not entirely clear, but that's the jist of it. Then, because of some weird and whacked out dream your character had, you all get sucked into a black hole or vortex or who the heck knows... And you all get split up. So, you end up in Toon Town or whatever it is. Thing about that though? Your character never asks anyone what's going on or for any leads on where to go to find your friends.
See, in a game like Final Fantasy 10 where it's weird from Minute One, they at least took the time to go, "the player isn't going to know what's going on, and the character is thrust into a strange uncharted world with it's own customs and characters... We need to spend the first few hours of the game expanding on that world and getting the player up to speed without necessarily answering questions raised at the beginning, but at least giving hints and clues every hour or so about what your goal is and indicate you're getting closer to it". Kingdom Hearts doesn't do anything like that. Kingdom Hearts throws you into Weird Central and then the guys who wrote the plot stepped out for a vacation with their hookers while you try to piece together some kind of semblance of plot out of the random Disney crap you run into.
I even found combat to be somewhat lackluster. I'd try to adopt "tactics" for dealing with enemies, but more often than not, that would get me killed. So, what worked? Running straight into the enemy and mashing "Attack" as often as possible. Oh, and the game never tells you that "key chains" are for equipping to your keyblade thing to make it stronger. Oh no, I had to figure that out myself (thank you lazy programmers, your lack of explanations and tutorials is really awesome). Once I figured it out, running in and mashing "Attack" was even easier than it had been! Oh, and if someone is going to throw out "you can't do that in boss battles!". Yes, yes I can. I got to the Tarzan area and came up against the chameleon thingie. I tried all manner of ways of beating it (silly me, I've got tons of RPGs under my belt, so I figured the boss had some kind of strategy). It killed me about five times before I just got angry and just ran in mashing attack over and over and over again. Wonder of wonders, the thing died in no time flat and I didn't even take a single hit. Either that's a miracle, or that's terrible programming.
I've even seen a couple "Let's Plays" of the game, and it just does not really impress. Even the jokes of the guy playing it doesn't really make it entertaining (mostly because these guys aren't really criticizing the game, they're massive fans of the franchise most of the time... so the jokes aren't ever going to be about how bad something is in the game). I just can't, for the life of me, understand how people can enjoy it. Well, okay, I guess I can a bit. I mean, it's Disney+Final Fantasy. I mean, Nostalgia Goggles rule the world and that's fine.
I was just irritated that despite all the praise people over the years have delivered to the game (so much so that it may as well be the second coming of Christ), it just didn't deliver for me in any facet of its gameplay or narrative. I found myself bored silly with the combat and gameplay and found myself confused and angry with the storyline.
Anymore, I just hope at some point it quits making sequels (like Assassin's Creed) and just turns into some kind of "classic game" that people will buy so the company can make other games again. I'm kind of looking forward to a more narrative driven storyline in the future. Could be entertaining. After all, I liked what the Mass Effect series delivered in terms of RPG Narrative. I had been starving for an RPG Narrative when the game came out and I'm starving for it again now that the trilogy is complete. -
I liked the whole KH series A LOT... IDK if it's the cutesy atmosphere or the keyblades or simply because it was Disney+FF+AnythingOtherThatSquareWants (or the idea of that), I just simply liked it A LOT...
AC... hmmm.. I really liked the first AC, but never really enticed to buy any of the other AC games...
PS: I don't really look that much into what people think of a game or a movie or whatever mainly because we all have our own preferences... If I think the game is nice to play, I'll play it, no matter how good or bad the reviews are... -
I don't usually look at reviews as anything more than "entertainment". But, when lots of your friends in real life, and random people at the game store tell you "you should get this, it's fantastic" and they keep saying it long after you've upgraded consoles (twice!)... You're bound to at least "try it" at some point. If it's not as amazing as all those people professed it to be, you're bound to be somewhat disappointed.
It's like buying into the Hype Machine. Except, you know, it's people you know and who know you. -
Most of my friends are AC fanatics, never tried it though...
but I think my greatest achievement on not going into the hype would be Candy Crush and Crappy (Flappy) Bird -
I never liked Kingdom Hearts very much either.
I don't think it's an horrible game, just... I find it extremely mediocre, in both story and gameplay.
Also, I think the gameplay would be way better if you didn't have companions that just clutter the screen with random lights effect. -
A lot of people apparently dislike Kingdom Hearts...come on guys wtf? You're so...Heartless...
Ok, that was a puny joke...XD -
I didn't like KH for a number of reasons. The battle system just felt off. It reminded me of Dynasty Warriors, just without the parts that make Dynasty Warriors so awesome. It was literally just mashing attack, occasionally healing, using spells etc. Completely lacking in depth.
Also the first hour or so of the game was so depressingly boring I can't believe I pulled myself through it. Things picked up in Traverse Town (love the theme tune of that place!)...before meeting three of my least favourite FF characters. After that I really liked Wonderland; the level design was imaginative and I found myself pretty immersed. None of the other zones held up quite as well.
Then there's the Gummi Ship. Completely pointless. Basically Starfox meets Lego and doing neither any sense of justice. I kept thinking "I just want to get to the next area. Stop making me play this pointless minigame." -
I know this isn't a particular game as much as a TYPE of game, but games I really hate and think are overrated are shooter games. I have yet to find a theme more redundant and boring... My younger brother sits literally in front of a screen all day with people online shooting it out. To me, after a while it would be the equivalent to watching paint dry. :headshake:
Just a personal disdain. -
Normally it would be like watching paint dry. However those kinds of games employ devious tactics to keep you playing. For example, CoD and Battlefield have progression systems where you gradually unlock more stuff the more you play. They have to do this because the gameplay itself isn't strong enough to last without it. It's how they've managed to make so much money and release games once a year.I know this isn't a particular game as much as a TYPE of game, but games I really hate and think are overrated are shooter games. I have yet to find a theme more redundant and boring... My younger brother sits literally in front of a screen all day with people online shooting it out. To me, after a while it would be the equivalent to watching paint dry. :headshake:
Just a personal disdain.
It's pretty sickening if you ask me. I stay away from those games because their communities are usually full of pretty terrible people. -
I agree that KH's battles system is very "spammy", but it's also a battle system that relied on positioning more. You had aerial enemies you need to jump to reach or chase around, you had those fat heartless and the heartless with the shields that you could only strike from behind, etc. I won't argue that you CAN'T button mash to beat battles and bosses, but that wasn't a drawback for me. Some of my favourite bosses were the Phantom at the clocktower, Hades, Ice Titan, Sephiroth, the final boss, Cloud/Squall/Yuffie, and even the basic Tidus, Wakka, and Riku fights on Destiny Islands. To me, they were pure fun to fight.
I was watching a friend play through the Destiny Islands segment, and I told him to fight Wakka. He runs up to Wakka and just starts beating on him, but Wakka has his spin punch that prevents close combos. He loses the fight, and changes his approach on his next try: deflecting the blitz balls. After he beat Wakka, I told him to fight Tidus, and it brought a smile to my face when I saw him get hit by Tidus, and he starts mashing X to try get his own combo in. Tidus just moves to the side, dodging his attacks and hits him again. I love boss patterns like that. Once you know that Tidus always revolves around you in between attacks, he becomes easier, but I love bosses that have those types of behaviours. You learn and adapt. Yes, I can beat him by only mashing X. I don't care. After Tidus, he fights Riku and gets completely owned. I haven't played the game in 5+ years, and he offers me the chance to try and beat Riku for him. I remembered the key component to Riku's behaviour: if you combo him too much, he falls onto his back where he'll lunge forward with a powerful kick that does a LOT of damage at early levels. If you don't dodge that attack, you probably won't beat him. I was aware of that behaviour, dodged every one of those kicks, and beat Riku making the fight look much easier than it had been for my friend when he had just tried.
I'm not trying to convince anyone to "like" the battle system. I just wanted to rant about what I feel makes Kingdom Heart's battle system and boss design much more appealing than any Tales boss or Star Ocean boss (comparing to other Real Time RPGs). Turn-based is an entirely different animal, and while I've already said that I like KH's battle system more than any other RPG (hurling real time and turn-based together), that doesn't mean turn-based can't achieve the same level of boss design. For me, Final Fantasy X is the best turn-based RPG I've played. It has boss behaviours/patterns on the level of Kingdom Hearts boss design, just in a turn-based format. I use these two games as the bar for what real-time RPGs and turn-based RPGs should be striving for in terms of battle system.