Games you hate, yet everyone else cherishes.

The writing hasn't aged particularly well in FFIV (almost as bad as VII's poor translation). This is especially apparent in the PSP remake. But it is a very nostalgic game for me :)

You spoony bard!

Ha! Edward was so brilliantly useless.

Hate is a pretty strong word, I don't really hate any game. Someone put time and effort into it which I can appreciate on any level. But games I couldn't really get into were Kingdom Hearts and the Assassin Creed series. I played the first few AC but they got pretty boring, the game didn't make me care for any of the characters, it was kind of a time killer instead of a journey. Kingdom Hearts as a kid was fun, you got to mix two really interesting universes and characters. But it started to get way too convoluted, felt like a button masher later on.

I don't hate it in the least, but Ocarina of Time can be over hyped. I understand why it is so loved, I've played it myself. First 3D Zelda title (I think?), gorgeous graphics for the time, pretty mind-blowing as a kid plus all the memories people retain playing it. But it rides on its nostalgia and fans wearing rose tinted glasses. 15 years later and it's still clamored around as the best game ever made. That's a little much. Though few series can match the timelessness of the Zelda franchise.

Edit typos

Two "over-hyped" games that get compared a lot are FFVII and Ocarina of Time. Here's a few reasons why I think OoT is the better game.

It's absolutely drenched in atmosphere. Hyrule Field at sunset, the Forest Temple (or any of the dungeons really), the bustling Market and the just incredible Goron city, and who could forget the creepy as hell Bottom of the Well? As a kid I used to love visiting these places.

The contrast between the two versions of Hyrule is very striking. The first time you emerge from the Temple of Time as Adult Link and Hyrule Town is just a ruin? That's such a memorable moment for me; the game just throws off the kiddy gloves and gets real serious out of nowhere!

It still looks gorgeous despite its dated graphics. Even the improved 3DS version is testament to this.

The replay value is immense. Even if I liked FFVII I couldn't see myself replaying it; not in a small scale of time at least. OoT is one of those games I could easily dive into at any time.

This is just my opinion though.

I did like Edward. And the "spoony bard" thing was gold.


Honestly, I really liked a lot of IV. The characters were cute and engaging, even if they weren't developed much (and therefore their deaths seemed more pointless than sad). Like I said before, the whole love triangle thing with Cecil, Rosa, and Kain and Kain's subsequent brainwashing helped along by his jealousy could have been a really awesome plot. But then Moon Boy.


I think a big part of why I hate it was that it could have been so good. But they murdered it.


Eh, VII's poor translation is part of why I love it. It's like a B Movie in that respect. It's just so bad sometimes that it crosses back over into good.


Also, the story and characters are pretty damn good, if you can get past "This guy are sick."


(Though I'm horrendously biased because FFVII was the game that introduced me to Final Fantasy and JRPGs)


EDIT: OoT has held up a lot better than FFVII. I think a lot of it has to do with the poor translation. Playing VII in Japanese is a whole 'nother banana from playing it in English, and much more engaging.


Plus, OoT was honestly much prettier. The low-poly models and pre-rendered backgrounds (also, OoT having most of it's backgrounds NOT pre-rendered worked in its favor) worked a lot better in bright colors than in Call of Reality Brown. I feel like VII would have been a really gorgeous game if it had been released just a few years later. But as it is, it's kinda...Muddy...

That's why I think FFIX is better in every way. It's a lot prettier, the character models are superior (not to mention the characters themselves are more engaging, and more fleshed out). The slowdown during battles is also greatly toned down. There's also the matter of the story, which is shockingly dark despite its arguably less mature aesthetic.

FFVII may have introduced many people to the RPG genre (which is a very good thing, don't get me wrong), and I can see exactly why people rate it so highly. I think my problem with it is just that I missed the boat; by the time I played it, I'd already played FFIX, Tales of Symphonia, Persona 4 and a ton of other amazing JRPGs. I can't appreciate it like other people can in that regard.

Hrm... I may get killed for saying this, but I honestly believe that the people who write Pokemon games have a computer program that randomly generates a story line, shallow characters, 100 interesting, yet unmemorable soundtracks and locations, and 150 creatures which they run every once and a while when they want to make a new game. And don't get me wrong, I love Pokemon themselves next to anybody. But I mean seriously, people put DAYS into playing these games which are so blatantly formulated...

It's the old "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" way of doing things. Pokemon's gotten away with it for nearly 20 years because it just works. I agree with you on the stories. There's some very interesting lore if you look around and reach Pokedex entries, but the stories are kinda copy/paste. Unmemorable soundtracks though? No way, Pokemon has had some of the most iconic themes in gaming history (tell me the National Park theme from HG/SS isn't stunningly beautiful).

I love Pokemon but I definitely see your points, X and Y were technically impressive, but I didn't think they were as good as previous entries. I just wish they'd make Pokemon Snap 2.

if they do have a program like that, I'd like to have a copy of that... seriously...

That and Call of Duty's conception program and you could found your own rival game company. 

*flails incoherently*


You know, I get a lot of hate for my love of FFIX. It's my absolute favorite in the series, hands down (though VII is only a hair behind). Zidane is my favorite hero in the whole series. I LOVE the aesthetic of IX. It's a really beautiful game. The characters are memorable and lovable, and while the story kinda took a turn into left field there at the end (the only place where it falls shorter than VII, IMO), it was still a very good plot which, as you said, was remarkably mature for the aesthetic and general tone of the game.


By the time I played IX, I had already played through I, II, the Japanese version of the actual III, tried to get through IV, just barely made it through V, adored VI, of course I'd started with VII, VIII lost me, and then I played IX. I loved all the little references to the earlier games. I loved that they kept what had worked in the past and expanded on it, rather than trying for something totally new. I loved the characters. I loved the cities. I loved the combat. I loved it all.


I'm sorry, I just had to fangirl squee there a bit. IX is such an underrated game in the series, and I think it deserves a lot more love than it gets. It is my humble opinion that it's (by far) the best game in the franchise. And while VII will always be my second favorite, I agree that it's more because of nostalgia than because it's actually that good of a game (at least gameplay wise. I will defend the story to my grave.)


And you know, I honestly missed the boat on IV, so I can totally understand your feelings with VII. Sometimes you just had to be there.

I like the story of IX, but didn't like the gameplay. And felt it had characters that were just a bit TOO much comic relief (Steiner, Quina). Also, Amarant is the most pointless character ever in a video game. I can't for the life of me figure out WHY he is doing anything, or what he adds to the story. His existence makes irrationally angry.

I couldn't stand playing it though, so I just watched my wife play through it instead.

I can't say that I hate it, it just didn't work for me.
I'm talking about Star Stealing Prince.

After reading several times how good this was supposed to be (some even call it "a masterpiece"), I decided to try it some time ago.
And I really mean "try". Because I never got into it.

First: the main character. You're supposed to like him, to care about him. Since the player will be with him for several hours, it'd better be.
Except that I wanted to slap him at almost every sentence. I almost always disagreed with his decisions and had no choice but endure.
I know, this is totally subjective. There are certainly people here who love that character. I can only say: why not? You can't please everyone, no matter what you do.

But I could pass through this if the rest of the game is inciting. The mapping was good, combats were balanced (so far) and puzzles interesting.
Until that boss.

How can a game be told "great" when it is so wrongly balanced?

I mean, on one of my many attempts, I got this:
There was my fully healed party, I started the fight and... the boss one-shot all of them. First strike, all dead.

It never happened in any other RM game I played, including the least good ones I tried.

So sorry if I sound very negative, but I couldn't go farther.
Having a main character I didn't care and seeing him killed was almost a satisfaction.

Ronove, if you're reading this, don't be upset. As I said, this is very subjective and maybe I am the only one in the world this game wasn't meant for. I don't like being negative; not my style.

You get hate for that? I think IX is hands down the best in the series, and such a breath of fresh air after VII and the dreadful VIII. The series only went downhill from there. XIV is pretty incredible, but I can't say I've enjoyed a Final Fantasy since IX. I love Zidane, and Steiner is great. Reminds me of Captain Qwark in a way XD

And yeah, that's so true: sometimes you really do just have to be there :)

I would like to argue that FF6 and FF10 are the best in the series.  I bought and own 9 and enjoyed it, but to me, it's nowhere near as close to "good" as either of those two games in the franchise.  I enjoyed FF5 (the story and the job system, which is the best iteration of the Job System in FF to date) and Tactics Advance better than 9.  To me, 9 is "okay".  I didn't buy it for the storyline, I actually bought it for a lot of the mechanics and the way combat works (I love the way items teach skills and then you can equip them.  Gives you a reason to wear everything and not just equip "the best" stuff every time).

I do realize that many of the games in the series I enjoy "have problems", but I think their problems are somewhat negligible when weighed against the positives.  Also, remember, I don't hate Final Fantasy 9.  I just don't think it's any better than "average".  You know what kept me riveted to the story in FF9?  Vivi.  In my opinion, he had by far the most interesting story going for him, and his very existence made him interesting.

I dunno, I just prefer deep characters and not "joke characters for the sake of jokes".  Quina, is by far, the worst character I've ever run across in a Final Fantasy game.  Steiner is such a running joke that the game is basically telling you he's so worthless you don't want him in your party (when the storyline of a game tells you a character you must play with is incompetent in terms of not just his job as a knight, but also his combat skills... most players take the subtlety to mean never use him).  I like Gau in FF6 (joke character that he is) because he's honestly pretty freakin' powerful and he has a deep story in his own right (at least, if you ever went looking to find his deep story... most character's in the game had optional content that was used to flesh them out).  Even if we went and got Gogo, who had no storyline what-so-freakin'-ever, they were an optional character who turned out to be one of the most powerful and gamebreaking in any Final Fantasy game.  Or, if we go into Final Fantasy 10 and the absolute pointlessness of Wakka...  This guy had some of the most awkward and mind-bendingly stupid dialogue in the game...  But, when he had his "crisis of faith", I was right there with him.  Not that it made him any better as a character...  But at least he wasn't a one-trick pony anymore.

That's the great thing about Final Fantasy: everyone has their own favourite and there isn't really a majority vote onto which is best, not these days anyway. I agree with you on Vivi; he has easily one of the best story arcs in any FF game. Rarely have I been so attached to a character than with him. I'm sad you didn't like Steiner much. He's a bit of a bumbling fool, but his loyalty to Garnet/Dagger is very endearing to me. Such a charming character, in my opinion.

I actually think X is one of the weaker entries. For me, it had the same problem VII did in that I just could not attach to any of the characters. The whole reason for Tidus's existence is to be the "outsider," so the other characters have an excuse to load you with exposition. I thought his interactions with Yuna were especially stilted and awkward (I won't even mention THAT scene). Almost as bad as Squall and Rinoa. Oh, and Blitzball? Let's just say I don't like it. The boss battles are amazing though, to be fair.

I liked Tidus despite his obvious "player avatar" status.  Once all the exposition has been offloaded to you, he does become a character in his own right.  You can even see him learning and growing if you're paying attention.  He goes from this selfish superstar kind of guy to someone who genuinely cares about the people around him and does genuinely fall in love with Yuna.  I know everyone complains about the "laughing" scene, but I have found that most people miss the point.  At that point in the story, Tidus is lost, confused, angry, and depressed.  He has no reason to laugh at all.  But, Yuna needs a reason to laugh and smile and carry on.  He tells her to just laugh as hard and loud as possible and she'll feel better.  So, he demonstrates it in the most terrible way anyone has ever heard.  But, it makes sense, he has no genuine laughter or smiles to give at this point.  The scene carries on long enough that they both realize how stupid they sound forcing so much loud laughter and actually manage real smiles of their own.  Though, the scene for me that comes right the crap out of nowhere and makes little sense is the "making out" or "lovemaking scene" that they have in the weird crystal forest.  Up to that point, they hadn't even held hands or anything.  It just comes clear out of nowhere...  Though, I can understand why...  I mean, you are pretty close to the end of the game and there aren't many places left to go to for them to wrap up the romance.  I think by that point, they both know she's doing to die anyway though... So I guess...  "night of fun" before the event makes as much sense as anything else...  I just found it frustrating that it wasn't really built up to properly.

I liked the character of Lulu because she was interesting.  It was clear she was attached to Tidus because of the resemblance to her previous lover...  She was a woman of contradictions and hypocrisy, but she seemed to know it.  Despite that flaw, she also know she was more often than not, the "voice of reason" in the party.  She didn't really have much of an arc as a character though, and her involvement mostly centered around keeping the party out of trouble and trying to get Wakka to notice her.  Still though, hard for me not to enjoy a "mom character", even if she doesn't have some kind of arc she needs to go through.  Her major issue was that she lost someone she loved.  She got over it long before Tidus ever shows up.  Now, she dispenses advice and tries to get Wakka to get over the death as well as get him to notice that she's right there in front of him.  Well, maybe I read too much into her character.  In any case, what I saw of her, I loved.

I also liked Auron and Rikku as characters.  Auron was just trying to clean up the mess him and Jecht had made the last time around with the fight with Sin.  He had plans all along to sabotage Yuna's pilgrimage once they got to Yunalesca, and that kind of makes him an interesting character.  He had unfinished business, and merely beating Sin wasn't enough for him.  He had to destroy the entire ritual.  Rikku, on the other hand, wanted ways to try to keep Yuna safe, because the two were like sisters.  But, Rikku is still young and not yet "worldly" or "mature" enough, so she's constantly getting into trouble or just being annoying.  She arguably has more issues than even Tidus does.  But, at least Rikku gets an arc where she grows up a bit and discovers the gravity of not just Yuna's situation, but the situation of the entire world and her people.

But, that's just my two cents on it.  I plugged the game in the first time and couldn't put it down.  I seriously stayed up 32 hours straight playing the game and enjoying the characters and the storyline.  I've never actually beaten the game (I got to Sin while on the airship, but he murders me every time and I have no clue what to do), but what I have played was amazingly fun and interesting.  That's why it's one of my favorite entries despite many of it's actual issues.

That is a nice way of interpreting the laughing scene, but I don't think it makes it any less unbearable! The main reason I didn't like Tidus was pretty much the reasons you listed. I much prefer a protagonist who knows the world he's in. Take Lloyd Irving in Tales of Symphonia: he's so deeply attached to the world he lives in that he's desperate to save it and his friends. He cares so much that you go along with his hardships and really feel for the guy. You laugh with his highs, and lament his lows. Tidus, by contrast, is the bystander, initially relying on others to fill the gaps for him. As a player, it makes me feel less involved in the narrative. For some games this works really well, and it could have done for X; I just feel it was poorly executed.

That's my two cents, for what their worth XD

Well, here's the problem with your complaint with Tidus:

If you take the polar opposite of the "Player Avatar", you get Final Fantasy 13.  No player avatar.  All the characters know what's going on and not a single one decides to ever let the player know what's going on.  Sure, you get tons of exposition dumps in FF13, but it's indecipherable techno-babble 99% of the time.  L'cie, Fal'cie, etcetera.  Nothing it spelled out for you in the game what-so-ever, and it's clear the characters care about the world...  But, because the player has no clue what's going on, they can't care about it.

The reason Tidus exists is so he can gradually discover the world at the same pace the player would.  If he didn't exist, you'd either have the Final Fantasy 13 scenario, or you'd have supermassive exposition dumps somewhere where characters talk to each other about stuff they should know about, because they live in that world (which is what a lot of games do, and I find it more annoying and immersion breaking than simply giving me a Player Avatar).

Now, if we need an example of "Player Avatars done poorly", we need look no further than Vaan and Penelo in Final Fantasy 12.