Why do you think I included a caveat to my opinion on the subject? I said "I have not played the game, but here's why I don't really want to". To which everyone, including yourself said, "You aren't allowed to have that opinion!" and then proceeded to call me arrogant for saying that I'm entitled to my opinion as equally as you are entitled to yours. Also, what do you think reviews are for? They are so a person can get "second hand knowledge" on a movie, book, or game so that they do not have to spend money on something that they aren't sure they'd like. You are essentially telling me that anyone who makes a decision on whether or not to buy a game based upon a review of said game isn't allowed to have whatever opinion they've formed on it. Do you see how slippery this slope is? You are telling not just me, but everyone, that they are not allowed to have an opinion on anything they haven't experienced for themselves. This is a very slippery slope that can very easily be abused just so people don't have to hear "dissenting opinion". The main reason I included a caveat to my opinion is to let people know that my opinion was "incomplete" or could easily just be ignored if they wanted to. Instead, people have used this caveat to say that not only is my opinion "wrong" (as if it were a fact, which is weird), but that I was not allowed to have the opinion, even if what I thought was in the game actually was in the game. Even if I had guessed absolutely everything in the game correctly and found reasons to dislike it, you would have still told me I was not allowed to have that opinion because I hadn't played the game.
I think you should also remember that despite not having played the game, pretty much all of Cjdgame's opinions on the game pretty much mirror everything I thought the game was. Take from that what you will.
Also, gaining first hand knowledge does hurt someone. If I have to watch the entire game from beginning to end on YouTube or somewhere else and decide it's boring, I've just wasted my very valuable and irreplaceable time. If I go out and buy the game and decide that yes, it's exactly everything I thought it would be, I just wasted my very finite and valuable money.
Games you hate, yet everyone else cherishes.
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I have no problem with you deciding to not buy a game because its uninteresting to you. I just think that your opinion over whether it is mediocre or overhyped is generally worthless because you don't have the context to make that a meaningful opinion. Thinking other people who enjoyed it of not analyzing the game rather than you know... it actually being a good game is not a meaningful opinion.
You can have any reason, or hell, no reason at all to declare you have no interest in playing a game. But deciding not to play a game has no bearing on its quality, as you have only a vague idea of what its quality is. -
Thank you for repeating something I already said twice before. My opinion on the game has no bearing on whether or not anyone else enjoyed the game or thought it was good. My opinion that it's an overhyped mediocre game is just my opinion. The argument arose when you and the other guy (sorry I forgot his name, but it really doesn't matter who he is in terms of the current discussion) told me that I wasn't allowed to have my opinion and that it was absolutely worthless simply because I hadn't played the game. It's not worthless. You don't have to agree with my opinion, and I never expected anyone to agree with it. I just expect people to respect my opinion on the subject, even if they think it's wrong. In fact, a great response to my saying I had no interest in playing it could have been "Well, yeah, it does look mediocre and 'done before' according to all the trailers. They don't really convey what the game actually is or how interesting it might be to you." It's a response that both acknowledges that the opinion is incomplete, but isn't disrespectful of that opinion. Not that I need respect or am asking for it, mind you. Just saying if an opinion comes up that you think is "incomplete" or "invalid" in some way, there's no need to take out the boxing gloves and punch a perceived opponent to submission. I can respect that you enjoy the game and think it's special. I can respect that same thing from the other guy. It just blew my mind that neither of you could respect or even accept the opinion of someone who just had no urge to play the game and was perfectly honest in saying not just why, but also that it probably wasn't the best informed opinion.
Sure, I disagree with you both, but I understand where your opinions come from. I don't understand them, but I know where they're coming from and why you have them. By all means, continue to enjoy the game and play through it another five or six times (or as the mood strikes you). Just, don't tell me I'm not allowed to have my opinion. It may not be an "accurate" opinion, but it's still a valid one. -
I'm just going to assume your last post was mediocre. I didn't read it mind you, but based on your last few posts, I doubt your posting has changed. Its probably just more of the same.
See how that works? -
I'm getting sick of hearing the same exact argument that I tore into a page and a half ago that went utterly unanswered then. No one has ever said that you aren't entitled to an opinion, in fact I've said 4-5 times throughout now that if you perceive the game as something you wouldn't enjoy and thus choose to abstain from playing it that's fine with me. Let's go back to the very beginning and I'll try to explain what it is that is bothering people, because you clearly don't get it at all.
Spoiler for those who have grown tired of seeing this debate
SpoilerThis is an opinion based on preconception. It is what the game looks like to you and explains why you have no desire to try it. Nothing wrong with this at all, if this was all you had to say then I'd have had no response for you and neither would anyone else and this entire argument would not exist.The reason I had no interest in "The Last of Us" is because it basically looked like any other dime a dozen zombie world apocalypse simulator with fake false choices and an "engaging moral dilemma storyline". Basically, it was "done before, done absolutely to death". Oh, and for those who say "It's about the drama and tension between characters!" If that's the case, why do we need the zombies at all? The setting could just as easily be that Mad Max Universe in which gasoline is scarce and roving gangs of people slaughter each other wholesale.
This is where the product diverges a bit. You stop stating a simple opinion as to why you wouldn't try the game and begin actually criticizing the game (which is different than forming an opinion and choosing not to try it based on said opinion.) You begin to review the game and compare it to other games that have been done before, giving specific examples as to why you think that in addition to not being a game you would enjoy, it is actually 'mediocre' and 'done to death'. It is this judgement that people have a problem with, the fact that you feel that you are capable of not only deciding whether you would enjoy it or not, but also writing a review about it explaining it's faults when you haven't even touched it (many of which, such as comparing the game-play to 'dead island' or that it's only 'good as a story that has been done before and then copy/pasted into a zombie environment' are provable fallacies to begin with.I also really don't want to hear "But, you've never played it, you don't know blah blah blah". I haven't played all of the Call of Duty games either. Pretty sure I know how THOSE games play out. Pretty sure I know what the multiplayer is like in all of them. Zombie games have been absolutely done to death at this point, and we can't wring any more "interesting narratives" out of them that haven't already been done a bajillion times before. I have no interest in a game that is basically just a rehash and reimagining of the 90000 games in the same genre that came before it.
If anyone can make an argument about how "The Last Of Us" did anything unique or interesting that hasn't been done before, then by all means... Convince me. Otherwise, I'll go back to being all crotchety about the game and the genre which is currently in the same threshold of "done to death" that "World War II Shooters" is in.
Oh, it really doesn't help when "zombie games" really aren't about the zombies. It also doesn't help when they're not really about "surviving" and more about "railroading players" into doing tasks and taking courses of action which would often result in the characters dying in the real world. This crap gets old fast and is boring... It's not like it's even that hard to tell your narrative without the zombies (which is often what 90% of these games do). You could easily place it anywhere else with some similar circumstance that isn't zombies and it would work just fine. The only reason many of these games include "zombies" is because gamers seem to be obsessed with them at the moment.
You also tend to change the context of your own statements when you revisit your own arguments. In a recent post you claim you provided the caveat "I still haven't played the game, but here's why I really don't want to" but you didn't provide that at all. What you did was say that you would brook no argument in that regard and that you can discern it's merits the same way you can discern other games such as call of duty because they've all been done to death before to the point that nothing new can come out of a narrative like that. I think this is the third time this point has been made but context is freaking everything and you intentionally gloss over context whenever it is unfamiliar to you and warp it to suite your needs more conveniently when it doesn't support your arguments.
By this point you've stopped even vaguely talking in opinion and are speaking factually about something you've never experienced and comparing it to something that has nothing at all in common with it.Sorry, I just get really angry whenever someone says a game like "The Last Of Us" is "really good" or "close to perfect". It's good in the same way the "Avatar" movie is good. It's good in that you've seen the movie before when it was titled "Dances with Wolves" and didn't take place in outer space with nearly naked blue cat people.
This is the problem. It has nothing to do with the fact that you have a certain perception about the game and it has nothing to do with others liking the game even. It's about your arrogant and stubborn belief that your perception gives you an insight into the merits and flaws of something that is >= that of someone who has experienced it first hand. Not only that but whenever one of your points is taken down you ignore it, as if it doesn't exist. Going so far as to say "but it really doesn't matter who he is in terms of the current discussion" when the fact is that my last post (though it was more than a page ago) clearly defined what differentiated perception in a debate from perception in a primal sense. (Which is still your primary argument even now, more than a page since this last post.) Everything you are saying now was resolved several posts ago by multiple people, you haven't brought anything new since then and you've ignored every rebuttal to any point you have made as if it was never posted, choosing instead to continue arguing that "an opinion is an opinion" and no opinion is capable of being > or < any other opinion regardless of the information used in forming it.
Prime example of this, since clearly just debunking your argument isn't enough. When Touchfuzzy stated that 'a game is not murder...it is not someone pointing a gun in your face' You retorted by reiterating that you were using the murder example to explain the fallacy of me stating perception as a fools tool when used in a debate. The problem with this is I had already previously made a detailed assertion as to why these comparisons were not linked, and that in those situations there is more than perception involved and that it doesn't work that way. I've tried throughout this to respond to every point you've made, but you keep going on and on with the same argument without making an effort to debate anything that you disagree with and continuing to claim the "victim" status in that we aren't respecting your opinion and that the debate only continues because of our intolerance toward you.
Your recent statements trying to play off of being 'understanding' while we viciously attack you are thus fallacies as well. You can spin the narrative however you want but what you said initially is still there and the retorts to your arguments are still there whether or not you choose to acknowledge them or not, but continuing to defend them and replying to every new dissenter by sticking by them while simultaneously ignoring these criticisms against them is getting really tedious. Just because these ideas aren't supportive of you doesn't mean that they 'don't matter' to the discussion any longer. -
Ooooh, finally, a chance to complain.
I absolutely hated Final Fantasy X. Just HATED it. It was so bad. The protagonist's voice made him sound like he was from some kind of piss-poor teen beach movie, which is already a minus ten thousand points. He's also a pro-blitzball player, some kind of terrible sport that combines soccer and drowning, and the first part of the game that you can actually control is just a bunch of cliche celebrity crap where he's signing balls for kids and stuff. Then, here comes the quintessential serious guy wearing a big red overcoat and not showing his eyes, coming to warn this annoying kid about giant squids that fall from the sky, who, for some reason, thought that he was the most qualified person to deal with them.
The city goes to hell, which is what you already knew was going to happen because of the boring opening scene that you cant even skip, just a terrible, terrible game. For me, this marked the decline of Final Fantasy. It's really a shame too, because Final Fantasy IX was one of the best games I ever played. -
Just out of curiosity, but did you actually beat FFX, or just play up until that point? (Though I agree that Tidus left something to be desired) I try not to loathe a game until I give it a thorough chance. I hated FF...uh...13? Yeah, ff13, and while I didn't beat it, I played into it roughly 30 hours before I said "AUGH STAHP".
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Oddly enough, Tidus is one of the few characters in FFX that I DIDN'T hate. So many of them were OK with sacrificing their friend for a few years of peace rather than finding another way. (Auron and Rikku also being on the list of characters I didn't hate for this exact reason.
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It doest really count as HATE, but I found Skyrim to be boring ;-;
I played for a whle and after around 6 hours(on the first play) I totally lost the will to play. The amoutn of cotnent is amazing, but it doesnt mean much when it's all so samey. The art design (realist/dirty) aslo isn't really my thing...
I tried to start another paythrough recently and didn't get through the tutorial intro before uninstalling it OTL
Talkign about HATE tho, I REALLY hated FF8. I tried playing it a couple times, and oh mein GOTT.
EVERY CHARCTER IS PAINFUL AND GRATING, the STORY IS STUPID. THe Lore made no sense. THE DRAWING IS ED OH GOD DIE MAGIC SPELLS, and combat was overall annoying and did not feel rewarding for , since enemies scaled with you anyway :/
Rinoa is one of the most grating character I've ever seen ina FF game, and knowing she was the main heroine made me sick. All the other characters includign an untractable and frustrating protagonist, Suckall Whineheart, (and dont bring up Coud, Cloud was a saint comapred to this sullen brat) were mostly annoying or intolerable, so at some point I was just like "why am I even playign this" and stopped :/ -
ff8 is overrated for sure but I still like it.
but for games I do not like
halo series
Most war games apart from mw2 -
Y'know, I actually quite enjoy what I've played of the Final Fantasy series, but I certainly agree to it being overrated at times.
As for 'Lightning Returns', I mainly question people's reasoning in buying the game: because they're an actually fan of the series, or they just wish to see Lightning's enlarged and jiggling breasts?
Maybe a neko fetishist or two.
I, along with another half of the internet, find CoD overrated as well. I don't think it's an absolutely terrible series, nor do I think you should be shamed for playing it, but I don't think you should be bashed for not liking the series either. It's amazing how many 10-year-olds will say you simply have bad taste in games when you have no desire to play something where half the online community considers your mother to be some lady who belongs in 24/7 open brothel.
Lest we forget the god-forsaken game/app, Flappy Bird. Sure it's not a console game or anything and is considered to be crafted by the hands of a Satanist, but in all honesty, it seemed beyond overrated. I played a few rounds of it, became bored, and never touched the app again. I don't quite understand why you'd spend--apparently--hours trying to get a bird across a screen without hitting pipes that looked ripped from some Mario game. It's apparent that lot's of people played it just to flaunt high scores or just to jump on the bandwagon of absolute frustration.
But all you had to do,
was exit the game,
uninstall it,
and go buy a soda to congratulate yourself for making it through that 'life crisis'. -
I didn't beat it, but I played it for like, ten hours. If you play into a game for ten hours and still aren't engaged that means its okay to say it sucks.Just out of curiosity, but did you actually beat FFX, or just play up until that point? (Though I agree that Tidus left something to be desired) I try not to loathe a game until I give it a thorough chance. I hated FF...uh...13? Yeah, ff13, and while I didn't beat it, I played into it roughly 30 hours before I said "AUGH STAHP".
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I loved Auron and Rikku <3 My end party was Yuna, Auron, Rikku and Lulu, I think.
Also, boobs don't bother me. Bring on the boobs. -
You only played it for six hours? Wow, when i got it a couple years back it used to just turn hours into minutes for me. I finished it a few months ago, married Uthgerd, and everything kind of went downhill from there.It doest really count as HATE, but I found Skyrim to be boring ;-;
I played for a whle and after around 6 hours(on the first play) I totally lost the will to play. The amoutn of cotnent is amazing, but it doesnt mean much when it's all so samey. The art design (realist/dirty) aslo isn't really my thing...
I tried to start another paythrough recently and didn't get through the tutorial intro before uninstalling it OTL -
You're lucky. I played at least 82 hours (different playthroughs, never beat the game) with a bunch of mods before I finally uninstalled that horrendous crap.It doest really count as HATE, but I found Skyrim to be boring ;-;
I played for a whle and after around 6 hours(on the first play) I totally lost the will to play. The amoutn of cotnent is amazing, but it doesnt mean much when it's all so samey. The art design (realist/dirty) aslo isn't really my thing... -
Final Fantasy 14.
I don't have any "hate" for the game, nor have I actually played it (this isn't the caveat). My friend who comes over frequently spends a lot of time playing the game and I watch him play. The art design looks pretty impressive and so do the monster and character models. I just... I can't for the life of me understand why he plays it. Perhaps that's a failing of any MMO, though. Hard to have an "audience" for one, and easier to have "players" of one. When he comes over, he crafts, sells, runs "daily quests", and does raids. He's long since run through the story (of which I saw very little, because he blazed through it in a few days apparently and never looked back). The controls are quite a bit confusing (yeah, my friend had me play a portion of one of his raids for him while he went outside to go get high) and not that engaging. I found myself watching my cooldowns more than watching the action on screen or even my positioning. I think I wouldn't have been that way, if I hadn't been told to basically be spamming like 12 different spells in specific orders. Personally, I think the game looks amazing and has the potential to be absolutely riveting and enjoyable... It just looks like there isn't a whole lot to do in the game once you beat the storyline. I have to admit that it looks like WoW has more endgame content than FF14, and I'm not even a fan of that.
As it stands right now, I just don't understand where the fun is in the game. But, again, that's probably because my experience with it is like 99% watching someone else play it. MMOs aren't really notorious for being "fun to watch". -
as Kirito said on SAO: "there's nothing as boring as watching someone else play an RPG"
and oh well, if you're more into the you want to be known and successful in an MMO, you'd mostly really fall into playing an orchestrated method else people will just bash you... That's why I now normally solo on MMOs (yeah I know it kinda beats the MMO idea) and just party when needed, and I don't really care for reputation or anything like it.
In a nutshell, MMOs are like this nowadays:
Do you want to be powerful, renowned and have the ultimate gear? Then do either of these:
Use your real-life money or Spend lots of time practicing and playing the "best" methods for your character... -
Some of the Raid stuff did look interesting, though it was all about memorizing patterns and hoping your team knew what they were doing. I could see enjoying that kind of content once (much like any other MMO). After all, there were some interesting quirks to the bosses and the dungeon layouts. I was just blown away at the actual lack of content the game provides when you've finished the storyline. You're limited to basically doing Raids, leveling up other professions, or grinding out cash. Leveling up crafting professions seemed to just be a way to make a lot of money by selling your high level items to other crafters who were looking to use the item in another profession.
In any case, I used to love watching people play RPGs. I'd get so engrossed in the story and exploring the world, I'd not just love to watch them go through the story and experience what the game had, but want to play it myself when they were done. MMO's just seem to be in a different vein of RPG. I've played quite a few MMOs before, and it just blows my mind that FF14 is so popular despite the lack of endgame content. Especially since there's really no reason to run what already exists as endgame content because the loot that drops is only useful if you want to continue to run what endgame content there already is.
I guess it is what it is. I just don't understand all the enthusiasm for the game. Maybe it is much better if you actually play it instead of watch someone play it. -
most MMOs that I played doesn't really have nice after-story content... at least for MMOs that has a nice storyline
I do enjoy watching raids though, but I hate playing them. Mostly since it needs to be "well-orchestrated" if it is to succeed... I really hate it when I'm "forced" to just follow a certain pattern... -
What bums me out regarding MMO's is their general staying power. When they are new and people are just getting through it and everything is fresh, it's an amazing time. There are plenty of players at every level (literally!) of the game, and always lots of commotion, which for me is the main draw of an MMO: feeling connected and engaged with others; like I'm part of something great (that's a pretty deep life statement as well haha). Then as the game ages, most players either reach endgame content and become pros, or they stop playing. The pros typically close themselves off from the rest of the game, only interacting with their small group in the most difficult of areas. After a while, the playerbase is almost entirely consisting of new players, who play for a little while, then become disenchanted because the world feels empty with all of the players either hidden away in endgame content, or gone. My problem with MMO's is that most of the objectively good ones out there have already progressed to the depressing stage I just described.
The progression of economics in MMO's is interesting as well, but I won't take this thread too far off topic. Studying the progression of MMO's is actually a very thrilling and engaging social/economical/philosophical endeavour...for me anyway!