TileD vs Parallax Mapping

Hello there.

I'm at fork at which I don't know which way to go moving forward. For a couple of months, with on and off again progress I've been recompiling tileset sheets (of the Time Fantasy variety) to start mapping with TileD as I found the built-in mapper very limiting with so few sheets able to be loaded. Before I found out about TileD, I was very tempted to learn about about Parallax Mapping... and found it a way to bypass the limitations of the built-in editor.

I was deterred from Parallax mapping mainly because of tedious mapping would become if I had use Photoshop... I figured, with TileD I can at least load up tilesets and 'paint' tiles and I would be free from loading a picture since I'm not quite sure how parallax mapping handles multiple layers of parallax.

My concerns with Parallax mapping has been mostly about issues with having a background-scrolling parallax, issues with loading other pictures on screen, and issues when queuing combat (since purposefully not using battlebacks for combat)

Will Parallax Maps be able to work with background parallaxes (skybox/backdrop) and foreground parallaxes (fog/sunshine effects)?

How does it handle when using in conjunction with "Picture" choices plugins, and Bust images during messages?

Will the Map 'image' still be seen when combat starts rather than a black backdrop?

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And then so comes my concerns with TileD. My biggest fear in devoting time into TileD is its compatibility with other plugins and the learning curve it requires to manage everything within TileD instead of MVs editor. Archaeia's & Yami's plugin is really powerful to be able to handle, event locations, region locations, and multiple layers all within TileD. However, not as a complaint, but I've already had plugins and certain events wig out on me while using TileD -- as such me dropping said plugins -- because I thought as a whole, it would be much more worth the mapping power TileD offers than a couple minor features via plugins.

I was hoping for some input about either or both styles of mapping from those familiar with each or both. I'm still in the process of compiling tilesets as I'm modifying/recoloring and combining Time Fantasy assets to be more modular -- for the intent of using them for TileD (and as a pretty good way to modularly catalog all of Time Fantasy assets Jason/Des/FinalBossBlues has offered the community) -- but moving foward when I finish that -- I want to determine what method of mapping I will choose and tips or advice would be great. I'm not looking for tutorials, I've for the most part figured out how to do both. I just want to know more about the pros and cons if anyone would be so kind to share their experiences.

Parallax mapping supports all that, depending on the plugin you are using you can have many layers to work on.
It also works fine with pictures, some plugins let you configure wich parallax layers are behind or above pictures, or render layers in different modes (for sunshine, dark, etc) They also show during battles no problem.
They also work just fine with yanfly doodads if you are thinking of using them.
The only downside is that its a lot of work compared with using tiles i suppose since you have to do everything yourself in photoshop or any other similar program.

OK, back to the basics - so that you know what you're setting yourself up for. Only then you can decide which of the three mapping options (regular editor, TileD or parallax/overlay mapping) is really good for you - and which ones break your limits.

All pictures need to be completely loaded to be able to be used. In the case of any tile-based editor, that are the tilesets.
With a tile-based editor, only the screen-part of a map needs to be displayed, and that is usually constructed from the parts of the tilesets.
With parallax mapping, the entire map-picture needs to be completely loaded - and that counts for every layer.

And all that needs to be in RAM and uncompressed - which limits the size of maps or tilesets based on the available RAM of the device. To understand the numbers we're talking about, save your tilesheets as BMP - BMP is uncompressed, so you'll see how much RAM each tilesheet needs to be usable, or how much RAM the parallax pictures need.
That is the true reason why you can only use very small parallaxes on mobile devices - they simply don't have the capacity to handle large pictures (pictures that go above screen size as parallax).

The reason why the RPG-Maker tilesets are limited in size is to keep the RAM needed per map as small as possible - you can make different tilesets for different maps without problems, but each tile loaded into the tileset will eat up part of your RAM even if that tile is never used on the current map.

Using TileD and the TileD-Plugin is only good for two cases:
1) if you need more than the three default layers for your maps
2) if you really need more tiles than the default tilesets can contain on a single tileset.

If you simply want a big tileset without needing it because you don't want to handle special-themed tilesets for each map, then you need to keep in mind that this will require more RAM from your players computer to compensate for this, thereby limiting the number of players who can play your game.
Personally I don't know of any map that needs more tiles than are available in the RM-tilesets, but because it is sometimes near the limit you'll need to edit a lot of tilesets for different maps if you want to keep using the default editor.

If your TileD-Tileset contains tiles not used on a specific map, then you'll be better off to make two tilesets even on TileD to prevent loading unneded tile pictures.


now for the difference between tile maps and parallax maps.
On tilemaps, you'll usually have one to four bytes per tile to store the number of the tile from the tileset that is placed there.
On a parallax map, you'll need three bytes (24-bit-color) at minimum for every pixel on the entire map - and a tile of MV has 48x48 pixel. That means that the same map as parallax (instead of tile) needs 6912 Bytes per tile - usually 2000-3000 times the RAM of a tile map (not exactly, because the tileset also needs RAM). Again, do not confuse this with the storage space on the harddrive - that is compressed, and you can't have it compressed while playing. Save your parallax maps as bitmaps to see their true size while playing on that map. and if you'll use multiple overlays then all overlays need to be loaded into RAM at the same time.

A lot of people just talk about the additional workload for parallax mapping - that also exists, but it is not the only problem. Using parallax maps will increase the hardware requirements for your game drastically, and the same (although not as much) goes for using larger tilesets or more tile layers with tile-based mapping.

I abridged the quote from making it a c/p of a lot of text -- and I see your point about memory issues which was something I was also concerned with since at some point once my first build was done, exporting the game to mobile as well which kinda removes parallax mapping as option from what you've described.

Right now, I'm in the middle of reconfiguring a lot of the menus and assets (non-tileset) to fit a really a somewhat lower resolution. Somewhat being I've converted the standard 816x624 to a widescreen 720x405. I am also going for a more 'pokemon' traversing system which is map to map rather than a typical rpg with an overworld. So I don't see having problems creating too large of maps. And it may also help with mobile devices.

I have also considered going back to the RM-editor because as you stated, a lot of maps typically don't require so many different tiles. But I wanted to create a varied/detailed map -- if you tried Neo Soul Gamer's Asylum, within the opening areas (specifically in the rear of the castle) -- he is practically using all variations of trees offered in the Time Fantasy style. And I wanted to do something similar to make this more... interesting. If a tilesheet was only dedicated to trees... you could imagine the amount of tilesheets to handle the rest of the map. Hahaha.

I guess, another thing to consider is creating tilesheets per area. Although I may need as many redundant sheets -- what would be the impact of having A LOT of tilesheets. The game wouldn't need to load all of them obviously, but other than affecting the file size of the exported game... would there be any other concerns with having redundant sheets per area. I have created a spreadsheet dividing up areas and considered creating specific tilesheets for each. As an example, two different villages would require a set separate sheets rather than sharing the same set of sheets.

Also I haven't completely removed parallax mapping out, and so I was wondering how it would handle maps that are probably no larger than 60x60? Largest case scenario, although I expect most of my maps to only be around 30~50? I will try the BMP test eventually, but I suppose I'd like to gauge the possibilities first hand. And as mobile devices are getting better over time, would the constraint of RAM and memory too much of a hit to really not consider parallax?

True computers have one big advantage over mobile devices where RAM is concerned:
Virtual Memory - the ability to pretend to have more RAM by shifting part of it to the HDD.
That doesn't work with mobile devices...

As a result, for most common computers today the parallax limit is considered something around 100x100, and even older computers should have no problems with 60x60 or similiar sizes.
On mobiles, you better keep the parallax maps to screen size or around 20x20 or 25x25 max.

It also depends on the number of layers when using overlay mapping - the numbers above more or less assume one ground layer and one top layer, perhaps with a single light layer mixed in on good devices. If you start using more layers (like adding a true parallax background plus shadow layer or light restriction pictures) the RAM required goes up and the size limits down.

However, you don't have to focus on a single solution - you can mix parallax maps with regular maps, although that can get tricky and depends on which parallax plugins are used.
Or you can use regular editor maps with yanfly's doodad plugin...

This is what I do now. It works pretty well in my opinion but I only use this option because I am already deep in development.

To answer the original OP though.

Tiled > Parallax. Since I exclusively use Time Fantasy and I have been through multiple builds on my game since I changed to TF then I can say this with confidence in that Tiled is the best way to go if you truly feel the Map Editor is to limiting. However it isn't nearly as limiting as some people think.

However I'd use Tiled even if I was going with Parallax since you can export the maps in individual layers. It is easy to use Tiled then Photoshop or Gimp to make the maps.