Selling out your own kind

Gather around one and all, boys and girls, lovers and haters because this involves you all.


As any of you know that work in the game industry...or just keep up on the news we are sadly living in bad times. Big game companies are hurting us worse then ever before.


1. No longer do we have the innocent and fun beta, no far too often we have the micro transaction beta. You used to actually get stuff FOR doing betas!


2. On disc and same day DLC, you already bought the game but...no not all of it, you need to pay more, the best example of this is Mass Effect 3.


3. Steam, not only was I told by people on here to get the Steam version of ACE which I regret to this day since there is lag when I have no internet connection, Steam does NOT check any of it's games to make sure they WORK. As a major distributor of digital games this is a problem.


Now I know what your thinking, "But oh beautiful Shelby those are just big game companies, what does that have to do with us?"


Well because one of our own is selling us out. Now let me make one thing clear, for those of you that actually sold yourself to a big company already that's fine because you are honest about it. But when you claim to be a Indie and make "indie games" that's different.


When you do the same scummy business practices as the big game companies you are not a indie developer. The indie scene exploded because there was a vital need of it from the GAMERS, people were sick of high priced games being made that nobody wanted! And were sick of being screwed over. A indie developer fills that much needed space between gamer and game company. A positive force for change in the industry.


So when you think you can sell pre orders for your "Indie games" you should be ashamed of yourself. the very word "Pre order" should never be used by a indie developer. It is a scummy practice done by big game companies. And you are not a big game company, if you want to become one then you should leave us mere mortals and stay in Valhalla.


If you roll around the pig pin eating garbage with the rest of the pigs guess what that makes you?


A indie developer doing these evil business practices is actively hurting the indie movement. What is the point of being indie if your just like the big game companies? Is that what we should all be doing?


Enjoy your thirty pieces of silver Judas

controversial... :D

Huh, I was with you, until you posted the last part. Are you really trying to compare DLC/microtransactions with pre-orders

If the customer gets the game, pre-orders Isn't a form of scamming.

What in bloody hell is wrong with pre-order, infact if you're making a physical product, not just digital, doing pre-orders is a must to afford manufacturing costs, and to make sure such will sell in the first place.

From my experience not many devs go for pre-orders but maybe I'm missing something? Could very well be aha

1.  I've never run into a "micro transaction BETA".  I have no idea what you're talking about.  When I first started playing BETAs, you know what you used to get?  You got to play the game and help the dev.  I don't need all this other crap that game companies push now in order to cater to the "instant gratification" generation of gamers.  I'm 28 and I don't care about extra nonsense that won't matter 2 weeks after the release of the game.  Whatever happened to playing the BETA because you wanted to play the game and were so excited by it that you also wanted to help it be as good as it could be?

2.  On Disc DLC is a dirty practice and I do not support it.  However "Day One DLC" is a practice you misunderstand.  Which, should be a bit embarrassing for someone who is trying to claim they know something about the industry.  Production on a game actually stops at some point during the "development phase" and then they start publishing and distributing it.  The "Release Date" is when they can have all copies everywhere they're supposed to be.  It's why you sometimes have "people bought a copy off the truck before release".  It's because many retailers obtain their copies of the game early and have to wait to do a release so that the release date is actually fair for all gamers.  When actual development is finished, many teams begin work on actual DLC.  Often, this DLC was planned as "exclusive" to certain versions of a game, but a bunch of whiny gamers complained they would never have access to it...  So...  Well, they just release it to everyone on Day One, but require you to pay for it if you didn't order the special edition.  Extra Credits has a very good explanation of how the Development Cycle for a game works.  In fact, they use Mass Effect 3 as their example.  I suggest you do some research on the subject.

3.  I've never once had a problem with steam.  Then again, I didn't see the point of buying this program on Steam when I could get it from the website directly.  I suspect you should contact Customer Service or Technical Support at Steam to get your problems fixed instead of simply complaining that they have problems.  Often, just asking the companies for help can fix your issue.  If you've actually asked them for help in how to fix it or in what the problem might be and they've given you the polite equivalent of "go to hell"...  Well, then you have a legitimate complaint against them.

4.  Indie developers exist not because there's some niche market for them (though the industry might look that way).  Indie developers exist to make some money and get their games famous enough to get more money rolling in for perhaps bigger projects.  In essence, they are game developers that haven't yet hit the level of business that most AAA titles come out of.  They're small businesses, basically.  Every video game company to date has started out as an Indie developer.  If you want to blame someone for some of the nasty practices in the industry today you should probably look at the Sheeple known as "players" and some of the truly evil entities known as "publishers".  You see, people only develop a game with certain things in it because it's been shown to sell in the marketplace (you vote with your wallet.  Lots of people voting for really stupid stuff that promotes a lot of microtransactions means that stuff is going to be mainstream.  You have little to blame here but the players themselves).  Most publishers aren't even that evil.  But, EA provides a fantastic example of how much damage a publisher with a lot of money can to do perfectly good games and franchises.  The other thing to note about Indie Developers is that they actually have the freedom to create what they want because they don't have Investors that often.  As in, nobody is paying them money for a product that the dev has guaranteed will sell.  These people do not have to make their money back, though a lot of them wish they could and do try to.  You can't eat without a paycheck, after all.

5.  I really have no idea what you're so angry about...  But, it sounds like you're taking out personal issues on all of the RPG Maker Forums and some of the Indie Developers here.  Leave the broad generalizations and name-calling to me.  I'm better at it :D

If you're referring to Blizzard's "beta" stuff. You get refund as in-game cash once they end.


Also Warlords of Draenor beta uses "fake currency."

I am with Zoltor - I don't see the connection with pre-orders.  Unless you mean the bonuses sometimes given for pre-ordering? But even so, I see that as more of a thank you for paying in advance in support of the project.

I hate the DLC movement though.  Resource packs like with RPG maker don't bother me because that's the only way that makes sense - it'd cost an arm and a leg to include all the available packs many of which I wouldn't end up using.  But actual game content in DLC, and especially day 1 DLC, tacky and annoying.  I almost never buy DLC, although do occasionally wait for a GotY that includes them or a season pass on discount.

I've never had issues with Steam either.

Betas...I do dislike how many of them are really more of try before you buy now.  It seems like alphas are more like old betas now...Micro-transactions being in beta makes sense to me though...I would rather iron out real money purchasing bugs before release.  Now if it's just a general complaint about micro-transactions in gaming in general, that I can get behind as 99% of the time I hate them.

Mass effect day 1 DLC the extra character that just happens to a core element to the entire story. Guess what I know about companies, they can push back there releases! Did you know that? And since it is a part of the core story they can make it free DLC if they not gonna wait.

And what Steam service have you been using?? Dungeon siege 2 does NOT work, you have to do some crazy editing to make it work, THAT is from a big company, some RPG maker games on Steam DO NOT WORK, this is also in the comments, it's also in the steam forums. So yeah me and many other screwed over gamers know what we are talking about.

@Zoltor, I am not saying they are scamming anyone. I am saying they are scum.

Why are pre-orders scummy? I know of indie devs that ran a pre-order a month before their release to help them pay for the final touches the game needed. Dev that could barely pay for his bills let alone the final portions of his game to have a finished product he could sell.

Pre-orders seemed logical and it helped him finish his game. 

How is that scummy? 

Also.. I think you're confused as to what an indie dev technically is. They didn't come about to "stick it to the man, we can do it better!"... it wasn't some movement against corporate game developers. lol

You just seem like a very angry at the world person in general.

At the moment I'm too tired to comment on everything, except this:

I bought Ace on Steam too, but have been using it offline without problems. But then I don't use the cloud sync feature, because that's bound to give you grief later. Might try disabling cloud sync for your game projects, and it should work fine :)

Too many games that that do pre order are broken on launch, you are PAYING for something without even knowing if it will work. And if you are a developer you KNOW if you game works or not. Example Battlefield 4, epic fail, Rome 2, epic fail, these are from big game companies that do not even know how to make games anymore.

So should I trust some indie developer that is doing this same evil practice, does he know what he is doing more then these big companies that have been doing it for years when he can't even manage his fiances? 

I also got a similar impression from the first post.

And plenty of games are not broken. So your point is?

The world of big game companies and their lackeys...yep angry at them. And not only do I have my opinion they are backed up, go take a look at the ROME 2 forums and listen to those snakes try and explain away their mistakes.

Yeah don't use Cloud Sync, it makes saving etc slow.


RPG Maker VX Ace has lackluster integration to Steam Workshop and their cloud service.

Holy crap this topic is hoppin'! I've never seen so many users reading the same topic at once before.

It's one thing to be mad at companies that execute bad practices and abuse modern technology (shipping broken games, requiring patches etc). It's another to label all people that do pre-orders as scum. That's over generalizing and is incredibly asinine. 

The scummy practice in that scenario is releasing broken games.  Pre-ordering is entirely optional and if you're worried about quality don't do it.  There have been many games I've waited for release so I could read reviews rather than pre-order it and regret it.  More buying options isn't a bad thing in my book.  The problems with pre-order only come up if the "bonus" seems too good to pass up on/break in-game balance...but I can't really think of any games I have felt this way about with pre-orders....DLC yes.

That's my point! How even knows, guess what guy, STEAM DOESN'T cause they do not check the games they put on it, so how are you gonna defend a system that sells broken games when they don't check for broken games?

I thought you were talking about shipping pre-ordered games that are broken, not critiquing Valve for not having a Department of Beta Testing All Products Before Releasing Them on Steam.

That concept itself is almost as asinine as labeling all pre-order developers as scum. Steam/Valve is a distribution channel, not an outsourced QA company.