RTP-made games vs Games with Custom Assets - Fight!

I'm not sure where to post this, so I apologise to the mods if this isn't the right place.

This is my first year with RPG Maker, and my first experience observing a contest as major as the IGMC. My question is, does anyone think a game made with mostly RTP assets can win against a dev who uses custom resources? For example, hand drawn busts, completely unique battle systems etc. 

I've been visiting game threads and it's obvious that the games using custom assets will get the majority of the community attention (and probably popular vote). This will also likely win points in the 'presentation' criteria for the judges.

Thanks to Indrah and other members, I also know simple edits of the RTP can make for beautiful maps too. I'm one of those who likes the RTP assets. But is it enough to distinguish yourself from the competition? The way I see it, a game made with mostly RTP assets, even edited, can only win if they have astounding gameplay and fun factor (the other criteria).

Anyone know of any such games winning these contests? Just wondering.

A very simple way to 'differentiate' yourself despite the use of RTP is to use screen tints and other special effects. The issue with a lot of RTP games is that they only 'focus' on the tileset, making a lot of RTP games look very similar, hence a feeling of lack of originality basically, but that is an argument for another day. Generally, as long as the tileset is used in a better way than the person using their own resources, and is able to differentiate themselves from others who may be using the same tileset via tints or effects, they can win.


The same principle applies even in terms of store-bought tilesets, community tilesets, etc. Just using Celi's tileset won't guarantee your game looks better than an RTP one, for example (especially if that Celi tileset happens to be overused at the time).


(But yes, there is a disproportionate amount of attention given to those that use custom resources, I've noticed! Graphics and screenshots count for a LOT! After all, I guess they're what you'll be looking at most of the time whilst playing...)

probably meant for the general discussion area - a mod will no doubt move it if needbe :)

Personally - I dont think it is so much the art used. Its more how the art is used.  The RTP resources can be VERY good when used properly, the main problem with them is the over-use of them within the current RPGMaker game market.

Dont get me wrong - if you can get custom art - do it. It will help your game feel more unique :)

Look at my most recent menu style screen for example (taken from EUA)



Thats fully custom art, but really - its not the art that makes it look so clean - its how the art was used.

dont get me wrong - Hyde done a great job with the screen images, but i really think it was how i used them that made it look so nice :)

dunno if this really helps this discussion, but its my thoughts on RTP v custom :)

You all raised interesting points in that it's not what, but how the resources are used. It's just a little daunting thinking you might have made this game you're quite proud of with RTP tiles, only to realise you're going against entries with massively impressive graphics.

And Dekita, shame on you for plugging your game. (I kid ;) It was you I had in mind admittedly when I wrote 'unique battle systems', hee hee.

I was one of the behind the scenes people in a contest like this run by a completely different community. Presentation is usually more about how well you use what you have over how much new stuff you add. Since there are judges involved and every game will be played I think it's a very real possibility that game using only RTP could win. Besides, it's only one judging criteria, your game needs to shine on multiple levels, not just be shiny to look at.

I'm all in with the HOW resources are used. if you can use them creatively then your golden. I like the RTP. Never ad a problem with it, not once, and I dislike how people get so judgemental about it. But it does need to be used approriately, and well to work. Something I have only recently learned.

(I am stressing about the injured cat downstairs... don't know if I can sleep. So trying to tire myself out again!)

Badly done maps, no matter RTP or DLC, are still bad maps.  If you learn to mix tiles, styles, with great maps, it will make a better game than badly done custom .  The same thing goes for parallax maps. You have to know how to crawl, before you walk, the same with mapping.

@Sharm - That's very assuring to hear, Sharm, thank you for that insight. Makes me wanna brush up my skills and actually try out for a contest like this someday (not IGMC, good lord no).

@Paladin-Cleric - Go to bed, you ;) Or work more on your game? 

I have actually never released a custom battle system - well my beta ABS in my master demo, but that doesnt count.

That being said, I usually just write a new battle scene. I hate working with the default one and if I make a new one, it means it can be use in conjunction with the default one as well :D

Personally, I use a mix of RTP and custom. I just try not to make them clash.

When it comes to how the community feels about this, I believe that we need to get away from the mindset of we, as developers, are in a type of "competition" in how we use the vanilla program. Instead, we can be focusing more attention (especially on Development threads) on how we can make new innovations in how they are used- working together in changing the way we use the program instead. Yes, most of the projects in development that use RTP look cookie cutter, but that's because we tend to think that RTP as the standard and wanting to do what is unique or clever rather than working together. For instance, Violent Whispers is a very good RTP-esque game and the features aren't too far out from the norm but that's because the developer uses the vanilla resources in an innovative way. The culture, our paradigm as developers, needs to change more toward innovation in what we have to use right out the box rather than compete for votes and prestige. We have a lot of good writers, artists, and scripters who are overlooked because they attempt to use the vanilla rather than flavor.

Interesting discussion. 

While I am new to the RPG Maker community, what you have for discussion is a bit broader than RPG Maker itself. I think we need to look at things from a different perspective. There is a difference between aesthetics, art and presentation. They do mesh together and eventually they affect one another but to each a unique point that makes it an element alone. 

TLDR; for judges it is all about aesthetics not the presentation only. For your everyday gamer it is about the flashy graphics (generally most of them). It is why Crisis 60 or Call of Duty 201 can sell 2 million copies in 1 hour and To The Moon would only sell so much in the same time frame.

Aesthetics, is how your art elements mesh together in general, how they all convey a single message and how they react to one another to convey that message. It is the "how" that has been referred to in other posts. This is generally what the judges look for (I have never been a judge before, but I did read up on how judges take into account the art aspects in some competitions), they don't really care if you are using the default RTP, edited that said RTP or made everything yourself from scratch. They don't want to see a game about vampires, death and what not set in a medieval age and suddenly your UI is all cute and fluffy (unless your game is all cute and such). 

Taken from the IGMC's rules: 

Presentation (1/3) 

Is the game aesthetically pleasing?

 

The other form is presentation; that is your art's quality... does it look pleasing to the eye. Is it flashy? Is it well done... the quality of the art made in itself. Not much to say otherwise, this is just tests the artist's skills and talents rather than the entire game's team working together to convey a message. 

 

I guess what I am trying to say in the end... for a player (we are talking players not other devs; though other devs can also have the same view), flashy graphics, fluff and a cool presentation would be a gateway to get that game more attention than anything else (at least for a while). It is how marketing works.

@Vallar - I like the idea that a game's graphics, however its form, is just used to gain attention (which can be true of any work of art) so that the user can experience the content, the gameplay. That's something I'd forgotten.

@The First Rebel - I like that you reminded me of how people can do innovative things with the Maker, even without the use of scripts. The Event feature and all its functions are amazing, and yeah, this makes me want to explore each and every one of them. Also, thanks for recommending Violent (Violen?) Whispers. I'll be trying that game out now :)

Seeing as how I'm more into the actual game itself, graphics only really matter to me if all other aspects of the games in comparison is quite equal... so for me, the answer is yes

I was able to make a treetop village using the RTP so I definitely don't think it's worthless. I see a lot of people complaining about using the RTP but I never see them making cool and unique maps using it. We've definitely seen enough forests, ice caves, and volcanoes in both RPG Maker and official games. How about a town floating in the ocean, a haunted hotel, or a structure that disobeys the very laws of design itself?

Your gameplay can be top-notch but that doesn't make good marketing material to get people try out your game.


They come for the art and then might stay also for mechanics and/or story.


Of course it becomes less relevant once you get to be well known author and get people try your stuff that way. Still it is part of the process to let people know about it.

It would be really interesting if the contest forced to use only RTP assets along with DLC. Custom resources? Never allowed (Even in the resource from the script).

Wonder how many games will be ultimately polished with this restriction. xD

While it is not impossible to win using the RTP, focus on what's important that you can do right now, the gameplay and immersion aspects of your game. Even with the RTP graphics, this is possible. 

It would have been seen as a marketing campaign and they are trying to force people to buy DLCs :p

Remember that you can use any engine for the contest, so this will be kind of a not doable thing