Oriental sword technique

for those who are familiar with Oriental sword techniques, could "dragon crouching in the water" be a sword technique too? or just a katana technique? when I picture it being used with a small sword, it's just loses it's substance and heart. with other swords It seems ok, but it just looks better in my mind when used with a katana. thoughts anyone? this is for a project I'm working on

Could you give us a link showing the style? I googled it and can't find it. : /

i read about it in a book. It's a technique best used against a attacker charging in

basicly, the swordsman stand with one foot back, on the same side there holding the sword, while holding the sword back behind them and down. then, when the attacker gets close, they step forward, while at the same time swinging the sword in an upper cresent slash

Sounds more like a katana style.

Well, personally, I find it endearing when someone uses a weapon in a creative way, like say, using one weapon style with a different kind of weapon. Like an "Iaido" katana technique, with a broadsword. Or any sword technique without any type of sword (like, using sword techniques with an iron pipe...) And so much more.

   That sounds really dangerous as an application for a Kata. You'd be leaving your body exposed to the attacker with no quick way to deflect their attack since your own blade is behind you. Attack to quickly and they could merely come in under your swing, to late and they've closed the distance and you are dead; If they predict you and avoid the attack you'd be left in an awkward position for a split second as you try to adjust your grip back to the more secure two-handed grip used with Katanas and bring your blade back down to level.

   Honestly it doesn't sound like a stance that would be used with a katana at all to me. Do you know what discipline this technique comes from? I could see such a thing used with the Chinese Jian (where many styles rely on the blade behind the body stance described above) or even as a feint used by a medieval knight using a broadsword and shield, but it's hard to picture it as a technique developed specifically for a katana.

From what I've read, katanas are cool but in real life MUST be used properly --- strangely you need to let your wrist go very loose when hitting someone or the blade could literally break.

I also read, from a real life weapons expert who has handled the actual Middle Age weapons (with permission from the musem curators), that real life broadswords weighed maybe 2 pounds at the most (and two handed swords weighed 5 pounds), which really surprised me.

thanks... the charecter I adapded the technique for can use both swords and katana's... although, she already has a technique set for the sword, maybe I should just make up all of there techniques, instead of drawing some from real life. Also, no, I read about it in 2008 and have forgotten all but how the technique is carried out

It sounds more like a technique of one of those disciplines that likes to draw and sheath their blades with every attack... You could certainly do it with other types of weapons but whether it makes sense or not, I cannot say... Though I think it's normally done with a weapon that only has a blade on one side (like a katana)

the book i was reading didn't mention sheathing and unsheathing with every attack... There's actually a discipline that does that? must not have ever been used in actual combat, seeing as the last thing you want to do is dirty a sheath

Definitely not the name of a Katana technique, since the Japanese names of techniques relating to Japanese Swordsmanship (kenjutsu, Iai-jutsu) don't have flowery names like that. They're usually just called "Down-wards cut, side-wards cut etc.).

Some Kata will have slightly flowery names like "Tsukikage" or "Oikaze", which means "Moon Shadow/Shadow of the Moon" and "Chasing wind/Chase the Wind" respectively, but these names will all have references to nature, seasons or natural objects - not to things like Dragons and tigers.

Such names, I would say in almost all cases, denote Chinese fencing techniques.

This technique exists in Japanese swordsmanship. The stance you're thinking of is a variation of Waki no Kamae



It is a position meant to provoke attack, especially from a person that is holding the blade in Joudan no Kamae, which is the over-head position, and then cutting upwards like you say.

There are many upwards cuts like this in Iai-jutsu, although the cut itself doesn't have a unique name.

In Japanese fencing, there is one particular discipline known as "Iai" or "Batto". This is the art of drawing and cutting in one motion.

You do not draw, attack, sheath and then attack again. You just draw and attack in one motion. Sheathing only happens after you've cut down the opponent, done "chiburi"(shaking of the blood) and wiped the sword clean.

In feudal Japan, preemptive attacks, ambushes, and dirty tricks were the norm among warriors. Samurai would often ambush other Samurai as they were on their way home after having been out drinking, or under other social situations. Due to this, "Iai-jutsu" became an important tool - not just for ambushing and killing people before they knew they were being attacked, but also to defend against such attacks.

As for dirty sheaths - most run of the mill Katana would be so chipped and and bent after use on the battle-field that a dirty sheath would be the least of their problem. Often, they would have to bend their swords back into place after a battle, and the act of sheathing it would partially break the sheath because the Katana was no longer perfectly straight.

After the warring states period ended, wars were replaced with duels and small skirmishes between Samurai vying for social and political standing within the Tokugawa system. These kind of duels probably wouldn't break the blade, but the Samurai wouldn't be able to necessarily clean their blades immediately after a fight, and they couldn't walk around with a naked blade in public, so they'd still sheath it after a quick shake, and a rub with a piece of cloth.

Since sheaths were usually made of wood and relative inexpensive, they could easily be replaced.

All swords must be used properly, but only to an extent. After all, they're pieces of steel with a sharpened edge - even if you wielded it like a baseball-bat it would still kill a person if they got hit with it. Point is that, if you're fighting a guy who's trying to kill you back, and is wearing armor, then it's very easy to damage the blade.

Sword on sword hits will chip the blade, which can cause the structural integrity of the sword to be fundamentally broken, which means the sword might snap in half the next time you hit something hard with it. Similarly, if you cut poorly, the sword will get stuck in the person you cut at, which will render you vulnerable to attacks by other people.

Also, if the person you're fighting is wearing armor, and you miss the gaps in the armor (like at the joints) when cutting, your blade will chip or even bend at direct impact.

As for wrists - No, most of the time, your wrists need to be twisting inn towards the center of the handle, and be locked in place. If they're not, your sword won't travel in a straight line when cutting, and you're sword will get stuck in the target, and/or your wrists run the risk of damage, or even breaking, from the shock of the hits.

Speed isn't really all that important. Timing and spacing is what is important. The human mind is limited in reaction speed by what is called the reactionary gap. Any movement launched at you from within the reactionary gap will reach you before you can react, and anything from outside will be manageable. The position of the sword doesn't matter all that much.

The idea is to hold the sword down to provoke an attacker into launching into an overhead cut. Naturally, you wouldn't switch to this position if the opponent is close enough to attack you before you can react. You would do it in order to have an opponent who's at a distance close the gap, and thus open himself up to your counter-attack from below, which will probably succeed since you've already anticipated his attack-pattern.

He isn't going to be able to run into your reactionary gap from outside of it, and attack you before you counter all at the same time. He'd have to be inside your reactionary gap to begin with to do this.

Naturally, you can play a game of "what if-", but it bears mentioning that all techniques break down if you do that.

If the opponent already knows what you're planning to do, then he will know how to circumvent this.

If we're constantly stuck in frame of mind that "if my opponent reads me now, he's going to counter me", then we won't be able to move at all.

All martial arts are reactionary in nature. You try to spy the intent of your attacker, and adapt a strategy to your conception of your opponents intent.

Sometimes it works, other times I won't.

There is nothing inherently more dangerous or problematic about underhanded swings from the waki no kamae, then from general overhand cuts in an unspecified context like this.

All cuts open you up to some kind of counter-attack. It just boils down to how well you read your opponent, and your timing and spacing.

Anyway, that's my input to this thread as a person who's practiced martial arts since I was kid - some classical(Japanese swordsmanship included - a derivation of the Katori Shinto Ryu), and some modern (shoot and Brazilian Jiu-jitsu at Paraestra in Kashiwa Japan, and T-Blood in Arakawaoki Japan).

Hope that helps, and have a nice day!

provoke + counter attack would cost a lot of TP... maybe I should pick a different technique. Also, thank you for all the information. I'm not an expert at this stuff, so It's nice to hear from someone who is (or at least, seems to be)

Thank you, and you're welcome!


I'm not an expert by far, but I'm well-read. Martial arts have always been a passion of mine, and I am lucky enough to have had a couple of subjects on Japanese/East Asian history at university, which lends itself to a more thorough analysis of martial arts in a historical context.