On Clarity or Rules and following them.

@Dankovsky

To be quite honest, I wish they'd get involved more. There's been lots of times I've been reading a discussion and noticing it begin devolving into vitriol and not seen blue text at all... For about a dozen posts before they step in.

There are times I've seen particularly toxic users who frequently bash other users and their ideas and the moderators don't intervene.

But, that's the nature of moderation. They can't be everywhere. They can't see everything. And, they get the final say on what is or isn't "productive".

You do also have to remember: If someone hits the "report" button on a post, the mods usually take action on it. If they don't, then they talk to the one who hit "report" to see what the issue actually is. So, there's no way to know if a post was "reported" and they took action because of that, or if they took action of their own volition upon seeing it.

While forum users often treat the blue text as a "warning", that is not how the moderators treat it. I've been blue texted before (quite a lot, actually). Sometimes for minor things, sometimes for very major things. I've been red texted once. You do not want to be red texted. The red text resulted in me being "thrown out" of a topic and told that if I posted in it again, no matter what it was, that I would get a ban. Blue texting is a reminder to forum goers. It reads like a "warning" and "feels" like a warning... But, that is not what it is. It is the step before a warning. The warning text is far worse.

Think of blue texting like your parents simply raising their voice to you a little bit. Speaking loud enough to get your attention and get you to do what you're supposed to do. Think of red texting as if they're yelling at you and getting angry. What happens after the red texting is the Spanking.

The problem is that so much of this is personal interpretation. I get it, I'm a people pleaser. The first topic I ever tried to post here got locked after being told it was basically pointless. That stung my wanting-to-please nature a bit. It felt like a slap on the hand. I got over it.

To some, the blue text means nothing. For others, they feel they we are angry with them for it. I don't know how to resolve that. We have to have some system in place and we obviously cannot please everyone.

I do think some of our rules pages can be confusing, especially as there are so many of them. It is why, when we restructured the project boards (Games in Development, Completed Games, etc), I worked really hard to reword the rules in more clear terms and provide a template that would make it more clear. I know we are wanting to rewrite the Game Mechanics rules to be more clear. The Status Update rules were rewritten to try to bring clarity. If I can find the time, I may look at our General Rules and see if anything can be done to clarify some of those. Maybe I'll make a "New Users Read This First" post.

But ultimately, the truth is, many new members don't want to read the rules. They don't care to take the time to figure out how our forums work or want any part of following the rules when they are posed with them. We actually had to ban a new member this week, who, after receiving a simple blue text message and having the (very old) thread they necroposted in closed, decided that cussing out one of our moderators in private message was the way to respond (the things this person said were horrible - over a blue text warning). Obviously, no matter how gentle a reminder could have been, no matter how clear the rules could have been, this person did not care to abide by them.

The point is, we can't please everyone. We're just not capable. Even among those who want to take the time to do the right thing here. We can try to improve, certainly, and welcome feedback, but in the end, someone is going to be unhappy, and that's not something we can control.

When mod tells you that you broke the rules - it's perceived as mod warning regardless of intention. Toxicity is the one thing mods should control, as I've clearly said in the previous post.
That's actually part of my point. Members don't really want some parent figures standing above them controlling everything they say and pointing out if they've made some mistake. That's simply authoritarian.

I prefer my moderation in moderation.

Actually, I hate to disagree, but the internet is full of proof that little to no moderation doesn't work well. I used to be on a forum that had no moderation whatsoever. It...was bad. You could get X rated content posted in the middle of a game discussion forum. People would rip you with swear words and porn links all over the place as they disagreed with you, and there was nothing you could do about it as the moderators didn't exist. In the end it got so toxic they had to get moderators and clean it up big time, but the reputation hit from those earlier decisions has hurt that forum to this day.

Also just look at about any Steam forum. Most have little to no moderation and you can easily see the results. In fact, most come here as they prefer this place to the Steam forums for the same product as they feel the steam forums are too toxic.

Basically, if moderators did little to nothing it would turn into the wild west out here. And most would hate that.

@Dankovsky So what do you suggest? How do we keep the forums from becoming the cess pool others are without moderating? I'd really love some insight. How do we alert members to what our rules are without it being perceived as us parenting them?

Simple way to avoid that. Read the rules. In cases where the rules aren't clear and you get blue texted as a result, you PM the mod who did it and ask for a clarification.

There's no reason to take blue text personal, but younger children often do, because they think that the internet is some safe haven where they can act however they want and anyone who tells them otherwise is "authoritarian".

You want "Authoritarian" moderation? Post something on reddit or tumblr. THAT'S authoritarian moderation.

These forums are actually very lax.

I'd postulate that a person who can't handle being reminded of the rules via blue text probably has some personal issues instead of whether or not the "rules are clear" on these forums. That's just my opinion though.

Blue text does not count against you. Blue text is a gentle reminder to follow the rules. It is one thing to make a post and say the rules are unclear (and in several locations, they are, you'll get no disagreement from many users or moderators here on that point), but to complain about being blue texted for breaking a rule? That's a different discussion altogether and speaks to an individual taking moderation personally. Which they shouldn't. They should go out and get some perspectives beyond their own. To understand someone else's point of view. To stop thinking of the world in terms of "how does this affect me?" and start thinking of it in terms of, "what's the larger picture here beyond me?".

Funny, I thought Miiverse had the most authoritarian moderation online (it was to the point most users called the admins "badmins")...

You've never tried posting something that was "the wrong point of view" on either of those places before, have you? Other users will harass you, do evil things to you, say disgusting things to you... and the mods will do nothing because "you deserve it for committing the sin of wrongthink". Even worse? They'll often banhammer you hard for just having a different point of view.

:D I think that beats pretty much anywhere on the internet.

I've seen many comments about how great these forums are because of the way the moderators do their jobs (and I agree). To ask them to change the way they do things, or how much moderation they do, is asking for this forum to become like all the others. People come here to get away from that. Don't make this forum like them.

Blue text simply means a mod has done something because you made a mistake. Read it, understand what the mistake was, and try not to keep making it. End of story. Honestly - if you get blue text in a response to your post, you are probably the only person who's even going to notice it - everyone else is just going to keep reading. That's how much of a tiny thing it is.

The wrongful banhammer is something I grew used to on Miiverse- had several temp bans there just because I was in a certain group on the Steel Diver Sub Wars community despite having not done anything wrong, just because others just hated that group. Ah, Miiverse was one heck of a adventure I do not regret.