How to make RPG Maker games not suck

You could post concept art, screenshots or short videos/clips to get potential player feedback.

The biggest complaint I see about RPG Maker games is "They all look the same" so the obvious way to overcome that is don't use the default assets. Using the RTP doesn't necessarily make a game "bad" but the reality is you will be judged for it. Ramza's answer is pretty accurate.

Make a game that no one thinks can or should have been made in rpgmaker
Then whenever someone finds out your game was made in rpgmaker their visceral reaction of shock and disgust will override their ability to judge it on its own merits and they'll be forced to evaluate it as "Pretty Impressive That It's An RpgMaker Game Huh"
Make a shump in rpgmaker, make a racer, do a battle royal, they'll never see it coming

I don't think that's really enough to impress people. You can already see people here making puzzle games, point and click adventures, card games, platformers etc. Non-RPG games are not that uncommon.

I think it was a joke.

So first of all, I think it would help to get a definition of what bad and good is in this case, since both terms are open to interpretation.
Is it that a good game is a game that sells well?
Is a good game something that is fun to play?

Though those 2 things often correlate, they are 2 entirely different metrics, and just because one metric might go above expectations, doesn't mean the other metric will match it all the time.

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Basically, if we knew the formula to make a "good game" we'd all be in previously mentioned playboy mansion with gambling and ladies of the night.
We can tell you what we think is fun, we can make suggestions, but you're also going to get a lot of conflicting answers. It's up to you to critically think what is the best advice for you and your game. Honestly, that's just good advice for life.

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Why is the RTP bad?



It's been many years since Green Light, and I think that reputation has begun to subside, at least in part. However the damage was done, as now RPG Maker is one of only 2 game engines that gets it's own bespoke tag on Steam (the other being GameMaker), and I believe many people who still hold onto that old stigma that it's just a shovelware engine, have likely blocked games with that tag.

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How does this affect the RTP?


But how does any of this make a good game?

Well, none of it does. The fact of the matter is that having beautiful art doesn't make your game good. It still takes skill to do game design. The art is only there to act as your first impression to catch people's attention.
If you want to design a good game, stop thinking about RPG Maker as "RPG Maker", and start thinking of it as a tool to develop a game, and to that end, the cost of making a good game; whether through time, trial and error, and testing; or through funding the game's development and utilizing the knowledge of others to help make your game fun. (Or more than likely, a combination of both).

But a skillfull developer is also going to know how to get the product out the door, because a game that is never released is never going to be good - or bad - because it never has existed in the public conscious. De-scope.

Now the question is who's actually going to bother reading all this :LZSlol:

I know I said I was done, but just to poke my head quickly back in: it's one of two tags in the "Tools" category, along with GameMaker.

And if anyone cared to, you can add any tag you like. Start clicking on games and add the Unity tag if you want it to take off.

One part of the stigma around the RTP is difficult to discuss in the forums, do to the nature of this segment of RM games being against the rules, but RPG Maker gets used to make a lot of what I would call "Sexy Shovelware", where a game is made more or less to guide a player between R-18 images. They use the RTP because what that part of the game looks like couldn't matter less to these sort of devs, because they aren't advertising the game like "Go on a grand Fantasy Adventure!" They advertise like "Get in bed with this lady who was horns and DDs".

Due to the sheer volume of that sort of game, along with the number of RPG maker games that get posted online that really just don't work (I am guilty of this), the appearance of the RTP is likely to have some specific connotations to a sizable group of audiences.

I corrected my post, as I wasn't aware GameMaker was a tag
(I certainly see that tag a lot less than the RM tag)

To be fair, while I do agree with you about this, in my original post I was referring to the visceral reaction people have when there are none of those RPG Maker-isms they've come to expect and yet the game was developed on an rpgmaker engine (I wouldnt say something so rude about the RTP, I actually like them).
When I'm showing off our game at events people are shocked to learn it's made in RPG Maker even before they see all the minigames, and I think the main reason is that this is not the sort of menus you expect to see in an RPGMaker game and you might not even know its possible to do something like this if your experience is with an older engine version

Anyway this is just for people who know rpgmaker stuff already. If I were to give a serious answer about the RTP and rpgmaker game look and feel in general I think that general audiences don't really know or care about the RTP. Outsider of RPGMaker circles its certainly talked about less than, for example, games having that "unity physics feel' or that 'unreal engine renderer' look.

Something that sells well doesn't always means it's good. Love is subjective, it still may not make the project appeal to someone even if passion was put into it. I just think as long as the creator puts care in their work and do what they can to make it match their vision, then it's something I can't ignore.

Sorry, missed the first part since the spoiler tag got my attention the fastest.

How to make RPG Maker games not suck?​

Well, the best way to answer this it to first check, why many RPG-Maker-Games "suck":
RPG-Maker is a very easy to use engine, so many people who are just beginners work with it.

This can result in a variety of Problems:

Gameplay:
- gameplay mechanics are not fun
- leveldesign is not interesting
- gameplay is not polished (unnecessary complicated menus etc.)
- pacing is too fast/slow
- player is too much guided, can't play and explore "by himself"
(for example if there is a side story with a mystery and before the player can solve it by himself the game already provides the answer)

Story:
- the world is not interesting
- story is not enjoyable
- story has plotholes
- story is too unclear
- storytelling is not authentic
- characters are not authentic
- characterdesign is not unique/ likeable

Art:
- sounds are too generic
- music is not interesting
- audio is not polished (sometimes too silent/ too loud, has overdrive etc.)
- artstyle is not polished
- artstyle is not consistent
- artstyle/ sounds/ music/ gameplay/ storytelling/ story do not match
(extreme example: for a dark grim and brutal story a colorful fluffy artstyle would be strange)

General:
- missing focus
- many good ideas, but none are really fleshed out
- missing vision/ feeling (unclear what the developer wants)
- too much stuff/ too big world (more is not always better. a small world with lots of love and details is often much better than a giant mostly empty open world)

There may be more, but I think these are the core issues. Not only of RPG-Maker games, but of games in general. Even AAA-Games nowadays often master the art (because they have the money) but lack in the other sections. I recently gave a presentation at my job school about the issues of games and how to fix them, maybe I should do something similar here too if people want it^^

@MAH1RO I mean, that's a good list, but might be good to provide more actionable information :LZSlol:

The thing is many good games also have their problems. So it's not that having any one of those problems instinctively means that the game is bad. It's more the sum of it's parts.
Having bad music can be made up with good art.
Having a bad story can be made up with a good game. (I mean let's take one of the most famous examples: Mario. Saving a princess that has been kidnapped is not exactly a compelling story, but it's still a great game series.)

Out of your list, I'd say these things are important:

And if that's not fun and

This, there is a big problem.

The thing is, is that writing is hard to be good at because anyone can write (look, ma! I'm doin' it now!) but it's much harder to recognize where things worked and other things didn't. Anyone can feel like they are a competent writer, but they usually aren't.

There really are a number of what I would call amateur problems I run into when playing many RM games on my stream.
I'd say in many of the cases, many games give me the rub because of:

This or the opposite; not guided enough. A balance needs to be struck.

Only partially true. Often devs want their player to find their world interesting before the game has even begun which leads to this:

Which tends to be a huge problem in amateur games. I rarely see pacing that is too fast. This ultimately leads to...sort of this

I wouldn't call it missing vision, though that's part of the equation. It's more that there is a missing hook to catch player's attention; or if there is a hook, it comes far too late into the game (see previously mentioned pacing problem).

Sorry, I want to correct you on this. Overdrive is just an effect - often used on guitars to give them a heavier feel. If overdrive was a problem, then DOOM 2016/Eternal's soundtrack wouldn't be so highly praised.
Overdrive is not the problem, it's clipping that you are thinking of.

Even then, unless the clipping is absolutely horrendous, I wouldn't say it's a major problem for games. Most people can't even recognize clipping.

Edit:
Oh god, what have I done! I am an unforgivable sinner! I have double posted!

Me, going back into my hole after I blue text @TheAM-Dol
Double post, double post!

Cursed by the witch, forever without reptence, unforgiven, crucified for my sins, stoned and flogged, unworthy of this place.
Good bye cruel world. I've seen the end and know that I am unfit.

Well, I don't mean the overdrive effect. I may have used the wrong word there, because in German the word for "overdrive" means both, the guitar effect and the sound error ^^

It's hard to be exactly correct in very short notes, because English is not my mother tongue and many phrases and meanings can't be directly translated.

And I didn't want to post a 20 pages essay here, so I just made a quick list, with obviously just some very general points.^^

An in depth look into it where I clarify what I mean exactly would need it's own thread because of the amount of stuff.

Some good practices to creating a good RPG Maker game, that lead to it being played to the end, and not written off immediately, include a good and original story, good and original characters, and good and original graphics, music, and sound effects. Adding your own elements, such as custom characters, classes, monsters, equipment, items, and spells, can help increase your games appeal. Adding plugins to your game, or creating your own original plugins and adding them, can also be something that sets your game apart. Knowing and catering to your audience is another good tip.

Do

-Think of a full story, from beginning to end.
-Keep the plot and its elements consistent.
-Give your characters flaws to make them believable, and have them work through and acknowledge them. Use some of your own if necessary.
-Provide optional distractions so it's not always about defeating the Evil Overlord F***blade and his plan to resurrect The Nameless Beast Of Eternal Doom And Stuff (TM).
-Reward the players who take time to grind. Yes, they exist.
-Give your players the option to defend against or undo everything the enemy may throw at them, at any given moment. Reward them for preparing, and provide a consequence for carelessness, while keeping the battles fair.
-Write the dialog well and proofread.
-Study how other games used mechanics or plot points you liked.
-Think of more than just one way to defeat the enemies. Give them the ability to buff in battle if brute force will do the trick, or give vulnerabilities to status effects so the player sees use of the skills that cause them. (Seriously, having your ninja blind the giant cyclops so that he misses all his attacks and give time to the cleric to buff the knight to deliver a serious two-handed sword strike, is incredibly satisfying.)
-Use good grammar and spelling.
-Think of what the NPCs will say at the moment you're talking to them, and how they'll say it. While they convey the same meaning, something like "Wow, visitors. I have never seen clothes like what you're wearing. Did you come by sea or land?" will sound more authentic than "I've never seen you here before."
-Think of who is saying what to whom. A stable farmhand will not sound the same way as a butler in a fine mansion would. Same with a merchant and a government official.
-Use logic when designing your enemies: A fire sprite should be weak to water, FFS.
-Give the option to the player to back out/save before advancing onto a major battle or the point of no return. Who cares if those flags will warn them that something important is coming up? THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE FOR.
-Use tropes reasonably.
-Make crafted items be worth the effort it took to get the materials necessary for their creation.


Don't:

-Leave character arcs unfinished, the traumas and successes they experimented unacknowledged, and don't toss to the wayside the Big Bad Evil (TM) or the Magnificent Macguffin Of Truth And Virtue (TM) unless there's a valid reason to do so.
-Self Insert. It's okay to use some of your own quirks and even good points, but don't make your main character your avatar. If you do self-insert, make it a cameo or NPC that breaks the fourth wall a bit here and there.
-Just think why the heroes will win, but also how they may/will win.
-Hand everything to your player beyond what they need to progress.
-Conversely, don't make them invest time and effort in worthless rewards.
-Write like an idiot, use Internet-isms, or abbreviations if the dialog doesn't require them. People will get tired of your game by the fifth time they see "LOL, you're house is on fire, d00d. Your in big trouble".
-Make the player learn abilities that will never be used, or worse: Having a regular spell-caster be immune to silence, confusion or berserk, but weak to blindness.
-Try to make the next Cloud Strife, Squall Leonhart and Lightning. Enough with the brooding jerk characters already.
-Leave plot holes. ("Somehow, Palpatine returned" anyone?) Be critical of your own writing, and listen to others' critique of it.
-Rely entirely on crafting items. If I have 10,000 gold coins, just let me buy the Prestigious Armor Of Incredible Resilience once I reach the The Legendary Village Of Blacksmiths That Do Nothing But Smith All Day.
-Dismiss tropes and archetypes. Trying too hard to "subvert expectations" has ended in too much pain and tears already.