A lot of RPGs have those characters you get attached to just to watch them die in the first few chapters of the game. This can be a good route to go because it allows you to either give a reason for the hero to do what he does in the story, or allows you to give the player an overpowered hero that acts as a tutorial and eases the player into the game by giving them a way to experiment with the combat system before having to fight any real battles. Of course, another way to get rid of the 'tutorial' character is to have them betray the heroes, but that is only good in certain storylines and will be a topic in a future post. In this thread, I'll discuss how to properly kill off one or more of your heroes.
1: Their Equipment and Level
Anyone who has played a few RPGs before knows the benefit of grinding. Imagine grinding to level up a certain hero just to have them die after the next dungeon. For anyone who doesn't know this feeling, it's not fun. For this reason, I'd recommend giving the hero a low maximum level. I'd keep it high enough so it doesn't give away that they're temporary, but low enough so a grinding player doesn't lose too much progress. You may also want to give that hero a higher exp curve so they level up slower. This may cause a grinding player to give up and continue through the game, keeping them from discovering your level cap which would cause them to think the hero might die which takes away from the surprise of them actually dying. One last thing you should consider is the hero's equipment. Unless their equipment would have been destroyed or stolen by an enemy, your heroes would probably take their weapons and armor to help them continue their quest. However, if that hero has an overpowered weapon, then you may not want to do this, which is why I'd give a 'tutorial' hero high stats instead of powerful gear.
2: The Story
This is something many people get wrong when killing off their heroes. When a hero dies, you usually feel sad about their death and/or angry at their murderer. If the hero died to a random goblin, then want have you accomplished? The player will hate that goblin, but that isn't a big deal. It's just one enemy of thousands they'll fight. That makes that hero's death meaningless. When a hero dies, you'll want your players to care about their death. The easiest way to make a death meaningful is to have a main or supporting villain be the one to finish the hero off. If your main villain or one of their top henchmen kill your hero, then when you eventually defeat once and for all, it gives a feeling of fulfilment, because you've avenged you fallen comrade. The other way to do this is to make their death a sacrifice. If an army of evil monsters is attacking a castle and you need to help the king evacuate, maybe the hero stays behind and sacrifices themselves so you and the king can escape. This makes their death mean something and they had a reason to die other than random basic enemy kills them.
3: Timing
The last major thing you should consider is the timing of their death. If it's too early, then players have no time to grow attached to the hero, but if it's too late, then the story before their death is weaker. Always think these two things when deciding when to kill a hero off: "Would the average player care about the hero at this point?" and "Would it disrupt the story at this point?". If you can answer both with a yes, then you're good to go, but if either has a no, then you might want to wait for a better opportunity. For the first question, you need to make sure the hero can develop enough for players to care about them. If the hero is a tough mean unlikable person, but has a soft and caring side that doesn't show much, you need to wait until the player learns about this side of the character before killing them off. If you don't, the player might think the hero is annoying and might actually be glad they're gone, which is never a good thing. The second question really depends on your game's plotline. If your world has been consumed by war and anyone and everyone could die at any time then this part might not be a hard condition to fulfill, but if your setting is peaceful and the villain is the one who creates the conflict, you should wait until they cause something that would be dangerous enough to kill a hero. A small band of goblins isn't enough to kill a hero, so it wouldn't be the optimal time to kill them off, but if an army of soldiers is chasing you, then maybe you could work their death into the story.
I hope this guide will help someone who is having some trouble with this subject. Feel free to discuss your thoughts or ask any questions you may have in the comments. Good luck making your games! :)
How to kill off characters correctly
● ARCHIVED · READ-ONLY
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Was going to read this thread, but it's totally unreadable in dark theme without selecting all the messages. Please remove black color font tag. Also, I noticed that you also put "Implementation" of script on how to remove actor's equipment. That ain't work for older RM. Besides, it's irrelevant to this discussion.
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As someone else using the dark theme...yeah. This is unreadable. :/
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Was going to read this thread, but it's totally unreadable in dark theme without selecting all the messages. Please remove black color font tag. Also, I noticed that you also put "Implementation" of script on how to remove actor's equipment. That ain't work for older RM. Besides, it's irrelevant to this discussion.
This was originally in MV tutorials and got moved because of its general theme, so that’s why that code is there. I’ll go remove it. How do I remove ‘black color font tag’? -
Switch to BBCode Editor mode. On the top right of the 'editing tool' bar or whatever it's being called.This was originally in MV tutorials and got moved because of its general theme, so that’s why that code is there. I’ll go remove it. How do I remove ‘black color font tag’?
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Switch to BBCode Editor mode. On the top right of the 'editing tool' bar or whatever it's being called.
Then what? It only switches to a different font and only while editing. Sorry, I'm a noob to all of this. -
It's all good now, it's readable. But I'll read that later since it's late. Thx for fixing it.
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I am interesting on this subject. Also, how far you can kill the characters off. Like I meant like are protagonists are ok to kill off? Before, you jumped on me. I like like one hereo death is not another hero opportunity lol.
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I saw this done just epically in Phantasy Star 4. One of the Main Character is killed of by the antagonist. You need to remember that the players aren't the only ones that will be attached. the party will be attached too. Everybody in the party will vent emotions, anger, sadness. and plot revenge too.
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I have strong opinions about character deaths, I think it's often done poorly and authors need to carefully consider every character death. If it's just to move the plot forward than it risks exposing the author's framework to the player, removing the immersion. If it's just there to cause an emotional reaction in the player, it risks making the player feel manipulated. I think the only time deaths really work is when it's a natural progression of both the plot and the characters involved. If someone has to carry the idiot ball to die or kill someone they normally wouldn't, you're betraying the characters. If the setup that causes the character to die is unnatural, you're betraying your story. If it happens with no foreshadowing you're betraying your player. You want the player to be angry at the murderer or the terrible circumstances, not at the author of the story.
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@Nekohime1989, nice to meet you and thank you for responding. I am so happy to new people here.
@Sharm, thank you for your brilliant mind about this topic.
Let work though my crazy mind of why I am thinking about this.
First I am thinking of fake endings. I feel this off topic I have start new thread and first I search the thread.
Second, @Sharm you give too much credit and thank you for believing in me. I am thinking of when I get bored with the characters. I might kill them off.
Third, I see you cautionary tale about execution and narrative if I did the wrong. The death will funny instead of sad or horror. -
I have a mentor character to the player. When this mentor dies, much of the exp gained from them during the playthrough and unique skills transfer over to the player. Gear is unmodifiable for every character except the player anyway. Works out for me. Just need to figure out story implementation. Thanks for this.
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If you are bored with your characters, then probably the player is as well. In which case, killing them off achieves nothing except perhaps making you, the writer, look cheap. They also won't care (in the negative sense of that phrase) if the character is killed off, so you won't even get an emotional punch out of it. Much better to create characters who stay interesting, no matter what happens to them.I am thinking of when I get bored with the characters. I might kill them off.
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@Rayhaku808, thank you for the recommendation.
@Kes, thank you for your input. let me explain my crazy mind processing. Your answer is great. So, you will say like @Sharm say ahaaaa.
I forget that you, so it is my fault on this to keep everyone here guess. I have an attention issue, so I am disinterest really quick on quickly. You and people have higher patience than me for sure.
I guess I get benefits of this disorder because I will keep every short as possible when execution of cutscenes and animations.
Anyhow, when I say bored, I mean like a writer's block and stress because I write myself plot pitfall. -
I'm working on a game right now where the (hopefully) lovable ball of cuteness that is my avatar dies. The main way I'm trying to make it work is by not keeping any secrets. There's plenty of foreshadowing that little Johnny will die, so rather than relying on shock value, I'm hoping that the player will feel a sense of unease and worry for, not only him, but more importantly, for his brother.
Some time before Johnny dies, him and his older brother, Thomas, visit their mother's grave. During his mourning, Thomas reaffirms his desire to protect his little brother, eventually breaking down, admitting that Johnny is all he has left and that he can't imagine what he'd do without him. Therein lies the tragedy of Johnny's death—not the death in and of itself, but that Thomas will be left without him.
I firmly believe that execution is far more important than conception. A "tragic death" doesn't just happen because someone died in your story, you have to make it tragic by finely crafting every detail up to, during, and after that death, and the best way to make a death tragic isn't by convoluted plot mechanics, but by being invested in the characters involved.
That said, and putting money where my mouth is, I haven't completed and released the game yet, so I'm not an authority on the matter. Feel free to ignore me until then.:) -
Few counterpoints to your argumentA lot of RPGs have those characters you get attached to just to watch them die in the first few chapters of the game. This can be a good route to go because it allows you to either give a reason for the hero to do what he does in the story, or allows you to give the player an overpowered hero that acts as a tutorial and eases the player into the game by giving them a way to experiment with the combat system before having to fight any real battles. Of course, another way to get rid of the 'tutorial' character is to have them betray the heroes, but that is only good in certain storylines and will be a topic in a future post. In this thread, I'll discuss how to properly kill off one or more of your heroes.
1: Their Equipment and Level
Anyone who has played a few RPGs before knows the benefit of grinding. Imagine grinding to level up a certain hero just to have them die after the next dungeon. For anyone who doesn't know this feeling, it's not fun. For this reason, I'd recommend giving the hero a low maximum level. I'd keep it high enough so it doesn't give away that they're temporary, but low enough so a grinding player doesn't lose too much progress. You may also want to give that hero a higher exp curve so they level up slower. This may cause a grinding player to give up and continue through the game, keeping them from discovering your level cap which would cause them to think the hero might die which takes away from the surprise of them actually dying. One last thing you should consider is the hero's equipment. Unless their equipment would have been destroyed or stolen by an enemy, your heroes would probably take their weapons and armor to help them continue their quest. However, if that hero has an overpowered weapon, then you may not want to do this, which is why I'd give a 'tutorial' hero high stats instead of powerful gear.
2: The Story
This is something many people get wrong when killing off their heroes. When a hero dies, you usually feel sad about their death and/or angry at their murderer. If the hero died to a random goblin, then want have you accomplished? The player will hate that goblin, but that isn't a big deal. It's just one enemy of thousands they'll fight. That makes that hero's death meaningless. When a hero dies, you'll want your players to care about their death. The easiest way to make a death meaningful is to have a main or supporting villain be the one to finish the hero off. If your main villain or one of their top henchmen kill your hero, then when you eventually defeat once and for all, it gives a feeling of fulfilment, because you've avenged you fallen comrade. The other way to do this is to make their death a sacrifice. If an army of evil monsters is attacking a castle and you need to help the king evacuate, maybe the hero stays behind and sacrifices themselves so you and the king can escape. This makes their death mean something and they had a reason to die other than random basic enemy kills them.
3: Timing
The last major thing you should consider is the timing of their death. If it's too early, then players have no time to grow attached to the hero, but if it's too late, then the story before their death is weaker. Always think these two things when deciding when to kill a hero off: "Would the average player care about the hero at this point?" and "Would it disrupt the story at this point?". If you can answer both with a yes, then you're good to go, but if either has a no, then you might want to wait for a better opportunity. For the first question, you need to make sure the hero can develop enough for players to care about them. If the hero is a tough mean unlikable person, but has a soft and caring side that doesn't show much, you need to wait until the player learns about this side of the character before killing them off. If you don't, the player might think the hero is annoying and might actually be glad they're gone, which is never a good thing. The second question really depends on your game's plotline. If your world has been consumed by war and anyone and everyone could die at any time then this part might not be a hard condition to fulfill, but if your setting is peaceful and the villain is the one who creates the conflict, you should wait until they cause something that would be dangerous enough to kill a hero. A small band of goblins isn't enough to kill a hero, so it wouldn't be the optimal time to kill them off, but if an army of soldiers is chasing you, then maybe you could work their death into the story.
I hope this guide will help someone who is having some trouble with this subject. Feel free to discuss your thoughts or ask any questions you may have in the comments. Good luck making your games! :)
1) no as it makes it all that much more real. You invest time into someone and they die before their time, it's not suppose to feel good, it is suppose to gut you.
2) when this happens in the right setting it reminds me of real life when someone dies to something stupid. Death is never suppose to be part of the fun.
3) you act like death is suppose to cater to you. No not even kind of. It can be funny but it is always sad and always feels pointless. That's what makes death such a big deal. I hate this cookie cutter idea that death is suppose to follow this formula to make you happy.
Death isn't suppose to be fun it is suppose to be sad, angry, pointless etc. -
Death isn't suppose to be fun it is suppose to be sad, angry, pointless etc.
There's a reason why almost no stories have, say, a character randomly get run over by a truck midway through the story. It's because you're writing a story, not simulating real life. Death has no intrinsic purpose in real life, but in a story, where the author's goal is to, in a sense, manipulate the audience's emotions, then every event—especially major ones like death—needs to have a purpose so it serves that goal.
That said, that doesn't mean the death has to somehow make you happy in the end: Nightcrawler is a messed up movie that doesn't make you feel good at all. It builds up its climactic death scene such that you feel as bad as possible. But the key there is that it still builds it up in the right place at the right time, like Awesomejr44 described. -
No it doesn't, it feels fake and forced when you do it like that. Death is meaningless, and that's the point, and we need to learn how to move on and when your story is presented like this it feels more real and has more meaning than if you try to manipulate it, or try to force meaning into it. That's life. That is what made the first few seasons of Game of Thrones so popular, is that it displays death as it really happens. Sometimes the bad guy wins. Life and death is messy and pointless and when you try to paint it as something it isn't, it tastes like stale week old pepsi.There's a reason why almost no stories have, say, a character randomly get run over by a truck midway through the story. It's because you're writing a story, not simulating real life. Death has no intrinsic purpose in real life, but in a story, where the author's goal is to, in a sense, manipulate the audience's emotions, then every event—especially major ones like death—needs to have a purpose so it serves that goal.
That said, that doesn't mean the death has to somehow make you happy in the end: Nightcrawler is a messed up movie that doesn't make you feel good at all. It builds up its climactic death scene such that you feel as bad as possible. But the key there is that it still builds it up in the right place at the right time, like Awesomejr44 described. -
If you want to see a game that does a character death very, very right, look at the scene where Lexus dies in The Way.
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Perfect example IMHO, total accident, pointless death. It sucks and Rhue has to make peace with it. There was no meaning or warning to it. Death happens and there is never a good time for it to happen. Trying to give meaning to a death or something sounds like someone who has never experienced this kind of loss or someone who can't handle reality.If you want to see a game that does a character death very, very right, look at the scene where Lexus dies in The Way.