First Language Concerns

Hiya! I see when people are signing up it's very unclear what to put as your first language, as it sounds like you should put English no matter if you're native to it or not. So a lot of non-native English speakers are putting English as their first language out of confusion. This sentence that's there right now should be changed IMO. :kaosalute:

Agreed. :kaosalute:

Agreed!
Wait...
I'm a non-native English speaker myself, but I'm not sure which part of it is causing the confusion, hmm. You mean to say the non-natives, those who can't, can't understand the sentence properly? As if it is saying you should put English as your first? Is that what ya saying, Arisa-chwan?

That's why I putted 2 languages.

First Language is defined as the language the person is most comfortable with using. Native Language implies the language predominantly used in the region you hail from, but there are cases where this may not be the language the person is comfortable with, or a region's demographic is split between two or more languages.

@Stanley nods

As a native English speaker I'd like help understanding why the phrase "first language" doesn't imply the first language you've actually learned. Especially with the context that this is an English speaking only forum, so indicating that you can speak English would be redundant. I just don't understand what else a first language could mean. The language that you'd prefer to be spoken to first? That would still be the first language you learned, wouldn't it?

I know plenty of cases where the first language they learned was not their native language, but would native language make it more obvious what's being asked? We did have it that way at one point, and there was actually more confusion, people were thinking we were asking if they could speak English like a native.

Do you guys have any suggested alternatives on how to phrase it?

@Sharm - What about making it a question "How fluent are you in english?" and select in a short command menu between Native speaker down to Very basic.
The idea being that a user saying that they're not mastering English will get simpler answers that way instead of highly technical wordings thrown at them, right?

Why not split it in two? They can show their first language and then second language. So if someone is a Russian speaker, they can pick Russian as their first language and English as their second. That should naturally make it clear for everyone ^_^

I second @King Vectra

@King Vectra - Actually, is knowing one's first language relevant in an English only forum?
It doesn't matter if you speak Russian or Swahili in your everyday life, it just comes down to your fluency in English here.
Any message written in another language than English is forbidden anyway.

@cabfe I believe this is done because if you're not fluent in English, someone that has the same native language as you can help.

The question isn't there to find out how fluent someone is in English at all. It's literally just asking what your first language is, that's the answer that's wanted.

Edit: It's helpful for a number of reasons. If you're having troubles communicating you can be directed to the right place or people who speak the same language. If you have a non-standard way of phrasing things, knowing your default language can help others figure out what you mean. Having something other than English as your first language means people will be more willing to give you some leeway if you've used words that you didn't know the implications of. Things like that.

We're using "first language" on purpose, because "native language" was making people - whose first language is not English - confused because they thought native meant foreign, so they'd add "English" even though they clearly struggled with the language.

I haven't seen anyone adding English there by accident after changing it to "first language" - so I don't know which examples you're seeing.

I know several people who have it as English, actually. There's one guy I know who is clearly not native, but he put that as his first language. My issue with this is that I try helping people, thinking since they're English speakers, I can speak normally, but then we can't even understand each other.

I've seen the same problem, but as Celianna said, it's been different before and there were still the same confusion. So I'm not sure changing it again is going to help. I feel like the people who don't understand what "First Language" means are going struggle more with a lengthy sentence and many choices about their proficiency level.

@mlogan You do have a point. :kaoswt2:

I think that's assuming that their level is very low, to the point that they wouldn't even be able to register on the forum in the first place. Being able to understand a simple question asked and select from a set of answers should be the minimum to survive here.
I doubt someone not able to do that will get far on an English only forum.

@cabfe I think her point was however, that for people who get confused with the phrase 'first language'; adding more description for clarification would be moot because of exactly that. It isn't really that much of a stretch to assume that someone who already misinterprets what two simple words mean would be equally flummoxed by a more detailed question/drop down list asking the same thing. Elucidating the question might make sense for English speakers who already understand how doing so clarifies the question in their own minds, but I'd have to agree that for someone who is struggling with/just learning the language simple and concise is going to be more likely to get through to them than a detailed explanation would.

Some people use interactions in forums like this one to help them learn new languages, so even those who come to the forum without "the minimum (language comprehension skills) to survive" might very well be actively improving themselves as they go along. Still, simple and concise is better for those cases, and I'm not sure how much simpler than 'first language' we could really get.

When it comes down to it, there will always be some confusion in that regard, language is a barrier to understanding each other that can only really be broken by fluency. The only way to get rid of that confusion is for the people who are confused to improve their comprehension of the language, or find a multilingual person here who can explain away that confusion via pm in a language they are more fluent in maybe.

@Philosophus Vagus It can also be a mix of both: stating one's first language and proficiency level in English.
That being said, people who entered "English" as their supposedly First language and are making many basic English mistakes can be easily identified as "not fluent" and dealt accordingly when we explain something to them.
In that regard, not mentioning anything leads to roughly the same result. After all, when someone IRL is asking for directions, you don't ask them how fluent they are in your language or what their first language is :)