Do we need commercial rights to enter the contest? (Updated with Permission List!)

UPDATE: We've come to the conclusion that you probably need commercial rights, and either way you should contact each resource creator individually. Official response on page two, here, agrees with this. Of course the RTP and any "DLC"/resource packs you buy from Enterbrain is legal (if used with RM).


If you contact any resource creators, please post their responses in this thread and they will be added here.


Here are the responses we have so far:


Himeworks:

 
$20 gets you a license to use ALL of her scripts, but for this contest ONLY. If you decide to sell your game you will have to purchase another license.


Celianna has given permission through her status feed:

 


Scythuz posted this in his resource thread.

Lunarea gave permission on her blog.

 

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Original Post:


I'm starting a new thread because a lot of people are asking this, and I think we need a clear explanation. On the contest page it says we only need non-commercial rights. So most scripts are fine as long as we give credit. But the prize money seems to make this a commercial project (if we win, that is. Even if we're not going to sell our game). From what I've read if you make ANY money off of something, it counts as commercial -- so even a trailer for a film, because the film makes money, the trailer counts as commercial. A youtube video of your cat, with ads on it, is commercial, and so on.


Can someone explain?

Well technically we're not selling it. If we put a price tag on the game THEN it becomes a commercial project. This is a contest which happens to have money as the prize.

Depends on the person who created the script/images. Ask them before using them in the contest to be on the safe side. Even if the contest says you only need non-commercial rights, the person who created the script/sprite can allow or disallow using their stuff when money is involved.

It doesn't matter if you sell it, only if you make money, like in the youtube example. I'm not selling a video of my cat, but I'm earning money from ads, which means I can't use music that is non-commercial-only.

Doe's this extend to scripts too?

I think this question needs swiftly answered from officials :/

I'm not sure what everyone's confused about, it's on a case by case basis; if I make resources and say no commercial use, and I say this contest is commercial because you stand to make money, then you aren't allowed to use them, period. (granted most wouldn't do that, but no one but the creator can tell you if you have the rights to use their resources for something that's not explicitly stated in their terms of usage)

Creators don't get to decide if it's commercial or not. It either is, legally, or it isn't. That's why we really need a lawyer to answer this, probably. Otherwise a creator could just start suing everyone by saying they consider every use commercial.

Alright, then it's illegal as it's directly or indirectly making money, which is a pretty standard definition of commercial. I'd ask them anyway though because the people who hold the rights can permit it under these specific circumstances.

Right, that's why I'm hoping a mod can clarify, because they've stated that it's non-commercial. You're right, script creators might give us permission, so it certainly doesn't hurt to ask them individually. Maybe people could contact them specifically about this contest, and post their responses in this forum.

In past discussions, it's been left up to the creator. An example is Victor's scripts. They're free for non commercial, you need to buy a license for commercial. He considers any amount of monetary gain as commercial, even if the game itself is free, even as far as selling T-Shirts or posters to promote the free game. In that case, he would expect you to buy a license or remove his scripts.

Other scripters would only consider it commercial if you are accepting donations for the free game, and still others only if you are actually selling the game.

A creator has the right to decide how they want you to use their resources and the right to decline their use (unless permission or compensation is granted) for any reason. There is no one arbitrary rule that says you can use them all for this case but not for this case; so you would have to contact them specifically if you are unsure about their terms. I don't think a mod is going to tell you it's okay to use a non-com script in a contest where money is on the line if they themselves aren't sure of the creator's own terms; they'll tell you what others have said - for you to get in touch with the creator yourself and ask them.

There are usually plenty of scripts that don't require to deal with author's whims unless you want something unusual.


But yeah, better be careful of what scripts you use.

Absolutely -- I don't think I was being clear earlier. Let me sum up the law as I know it:

A creator can release a script under whatever terms they want. They can grant anyone special permission at any time, since it's theirs. 

But the standard terms must be set ahead of time. If they release a script as "non-commercial", and that's it, they're using a legal term with a strict definition. They can't then decide, "oh, well I count *that* as commercial use" if you are adhering to the legal definition. That would be changing their terms after giving permission. That's what I meant up above.

So the question is specifically about scripts that are released simply as "free for non-commercial", with no special terms added. Then we're talking about the legal definition, so I want to know, legally, if this contest counts as commercial (and I think it does). My issue is that mods have repeatedly stated it's a non-commercial contest, so I want to know why they've said that. A lot of people could (theoretically) get into trouble over this if that isn't true. (I think most script creators are pretty cool and understanding, but you never know.)

If the terms of the contest states non commercial, if anything was taken to court, wouldnt that fact alone put the law in your favor?

I just checked it(http://contest.rpgmakerweb.com/index/rules) and the mod on the contest page's comments got it wrong, he says "... The only time it will be considered commercial is if you begin selling it : ...", it is not up to him or RPG Maker to make that distinction.

Each license is different, just Creative Commons has 3 different "Non-Commercial" licenses (some are really strict), the mods can't really clarify licenses they didn't write nor own.

Some people consider a "for-profit" company making a free product to be a "commercial" use. Statistics on the Creative Commons site show that 70%+ of the people consider a project "commercial" if any money is earned, no matter how.

Yes, it is entirely our responsibility to keep track of the licenses of the assets and tools we may use, but that mod should not be giving people any kind of "OK" to use stuff the company does not own.

Found HERE,

And Also...

This would suggest that all non-commercial resources are usable. The only problem would be if the images where copyrighted.

If the image creator states free to use non commercial, then thats what it is.

At the end of the day, its not the resource creator that made your game win, you did. If you then wanted to make it commercial, that would be when you obtained the appropriate rights.

This isn't true at all. Simply stating "non-commercial" doesn't mean much of anything by itself legally, a creator can define that however they want and put whatever stipulations they want on it. If they want to have you call them on the phone and quack like a duck before you can use it, that'd be what you have to do. This is why licenses like GPL and Creative Commons exist, so that saying "free to use with credit" actually means exactly that legally and those licenses take a lot of text to do it. The creator could also change their mind however and whenever they wanted and it would be the responsibility of the person using the content to prove that they had that permission at the time they used it. This is one reason why contracts are such a big deal.


The contest has absolutely no control over anyone's created works, having something used in the contest that says it's non-commercial doesn't free you up legally from following the creators rules. You are still the one under obligation to be certain that you are able to use the resources that are going to be in the game.


So, yes, if you're unsure if entering in this contest makes the work commercial, check with the resource creators, not the contest runners.

Fair point you have there Sharm ^_^

Youtube video;'s and a contest you can win (WIN) money with is not commercial , if it was then  every deck of card every slot machineimage would be commercial and people would be braking the law  by using them .

The contest is not freely accesable for  everybody and thus makes it like a casiono where you   bet on winning a price, that in this case happens to be money.

Yes creators can  say it is copywright (and trust me copywright laws are Freaking nuts  and complex)  related if you win money with something they created. Something you can  solve with crediting or getting permission to use it.

Winning money is not a steady income flow and is there for not commercialism, the same was me bending over to pick up a quarter is not  commercialism, i made money , by doing an action, in this case bending over if it was commercialism i would be sued by nikey for my shoes and  the brands of clothing i am wearing as i used them to  make that quarter, entering a contest is no diffrent.

The reason that the contest is non-commercial is becuas  they will not sell your game, and thus it is not commercial as it is a closed  contest.

And  i think there is a rule that  prizes under a certain ammount of money do not count as commercialism at all , else your granmothers bingo game would  it to. That power game you are playing with friend for a nickle  a chip would be it too, and would land you in trouble as you do not have the rights to use the cards, the poker set  and the chips for that game.

So i would say No you do not need  those rights, but if you want them to feel more secure go for it. 

Or just stick to the tiles you have from the maker and the dlc that you can use with out the rights of others who made the textures and stuff you use.

Tibletoad, I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say, but the artwork used on slot machines and playing cards was paid for to be used in just such a way, it doesn't really relate to this at all.